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Thread: Obama - U.S. will not torture

  1. #11
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I don't think torture works or doesn't work. Clearly it can make people admit things that are true and not true. The problem is knowing the difference.

    I welcome this development. I believe that one should always fight with chivalry and as a Gentlemen and torture violates that in my mind.
    Sorting through the revelations is all part of the job. There are trained professionals sifting it.

    In a pinch, when it could cost scores of lives, I'll take an American Patriot shoving bamboo under someone's finger nails to get some info... quick like. That would be the Primo, as Secondo they could go a little more medieval, and carry on from there.

    Of course they'd end up in court having to explain why they wanted to save American lives so badly. It just might happen to some unfortunate patriot one day.
    Last edited by zimmer; 01-23-09 at 04:49 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Sorting through the revelations is all part of the job. There are trained professionals sifting it.

    In a pinch, when it could cost scores of lives, I'll take an American Patriot shoving bamboo under someone's finger nails to get some info... quick like. That would be the Primo, as Secondo they could go a little more medieval, and carry on from there.

    Of course they'd end up in court having to explain why they wanted to save American lives so badly. It just might happen to some unfortunate patriot one day.
    By doing that you have surrendered dignity and already lost. Chivalry has a nobility that no defeat can take away.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  3. #13
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Its a new day in America...and what a refreshing change of pace:

    Yahoo!



    Finally a President who will return integrity to the Country.
    Blessed are the naive!
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

  4. #14
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    By doing that you have surrendered dignity and already lost. Chivalry has a nobility that no defeat can take away.
    You see, my rationale is simple. I believe it is immoral for thousands to die because you have a terrorist in you hands that may hold the key to saving their lives.

    If professional coercion is required, so be it. His choice.

    You prefer to protect the temporary health of the terrorist.
    I prefer to protect the lives of thousands or more of innocent citizens.

    I think your choice is nothing short of immoral.
    Last edited by zimmer; 01-23-09 at 08:30 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    You see, my rationale is simple. I believe it is immoral for thousands to die because you have a terrorist in you hands that may hold the key to saving their lives.

    If professional coercion is required, so be it. His choice.

    You prefer to protect the temporary health of the terrorist.
    I prefer to protect the lives of thousands or more of innocent citizens.

    I think your choice is nothing short of immoral.
    I choose to do what is right and to lead by example. You are advocating the removal of civil rights and the retreat to barbarism. Your will turn victory itself into defeat by destroying what needs to be preserved. Perhaps it is too Stoic a way of looking at thing but I'm an old fashioned Gentlemen.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I choose to do what is right and to lead by example. You are advocating the removal of civil rights and the retreat to barbarism. Your will turn victory itself into defeat by destroying what needs to be preserved. Perhaps it is too Stoic a way of looking at thing but I'm an old fashioned Gentlemen.
    You believe hundreds, thousands or hundreds of thousands should die because the short term health of a terrorist should not be compromised to get required information to save said lives.

    Because it is the "civil" thing to do?

    Again, I find that immoral, not civil.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  7. #17
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    You believe hundreds, thousands or hundreds of thousands should die because the short term health of a terrorist should not be compromised to get required information to save said lives.

    Because it is the "civil" thing to do?

    Again, I find that immoral, not civil.
    Well the fact is that the situations you are talking about are extremely rare, this isn't 24 or Die Hard it is real life.

    Two wrongs don't make a right as the ancient wisdom says and there seems little more important now than that Western civilisation retains something of its former chivalry and does not degenerate into barbarism. You position is immoral and foolish because you would speed up such a degeneration and make any victory a defeat. That is immoral, the means shape the ends and that must always be remember.

    The health of the terrorist in this case is not paramount.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #18
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Wow, you guys aren't even saying it isn't torture anymore. You've already accepted within your heart that torture is OK and you are now trying to convince others. Your mothers must be so proud.
    Affiant further sayeth not.

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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Its a new day in America...and what a refreshing change of pace:

    Yahoo!
    Finally a President who will return integrity to the Country.
    He's only been in office 2 days and I don't feel safe. This isn't refreshing it's stupid. You never put your hands on the table.

    I personally don't care what Europe thinks about us, it's what our enemies think, and he's acting like a pansy. Good for him if you like this sort of thing. He's playing to his voting pool the victims and the super elite. As they said on FOX let the prisoners from Gitmo get moved to Malibu to where Barbra Streisand lives.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    This is hilarious and it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

    From zimmer's link in post #4 from waterboarding.org:
    Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was captured in Rawalpindi, Pakistan on March 1, 2003 — after the plot was discovered, after the plot was "derailed", after the pilot of the plane was captured. Khaled Sheikh Mohammed could not have "provided valuable information and saved lives" when all aspects of the plot were well-known and the attack had been foiled prior to his capture.

    Coercive interrogation is extremely effective at obtaining confessions. Evidence obtained from coercive interrogation is highly dubious and must be corroborated with reliable sources. The claims of interrogators who coerce their prisoners should be treated with as much skepticism as the claims of the prisoners themselves.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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