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Thread: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

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    Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    As one of his first acts, President Obama is going to repeal the Bush rule that barred Federal money being used to counsel women on abortion services. Obama is also repealing the Bush rule against Federal money being used for stem cell research.

    As far as Federal funding of stem cell research, that is a good decision. However, funding abortion services, IMHO, is wrong. Here is why:

    1) As far as abortion goes, I believe it should be legal in those states which want it, and illegal in those which don't. It is up to the states themselves, and none of the Federal government's business. This is the reason that I am opposed to Roe v. Wade, just as I am opposed to any effort to federally criminalize abortion.

    2) When you give Federal money for abortion counseling, you are essentially disrespecting the beliefs of those states which made abortion illegal. Yes, I am in favor of a woman's right to choose, but I would not dare to hit those who disagree with me over the head with my belief any more than I would agree with somebody hitting me over the head with a Bible and telling me I am going to hell.

    3) America is not a one size fits all nation. Different areas of the country have different beliefs, and they are entitled to them. Whether a state supports or bans abortion is, frankly, none of the Federal government's business.

    So, where do I stand in regard to Obama's decision today? On stem cell research, bravo. On Federal funding of abortionists, boo.

    Article is here.
    Last edited by danarhea; 01-21-09 at 02:21 PM.
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    I am a big fan of Obama using funds for Stem Cell research. Most of the people against stem cell research are trying to protect what is basically 100,000 cells worth of a life form. I guess, according to their logic, every time I scratch my nose I commit genocide?
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Obama is also repealing the Bush rule against Federal money being used for stem cell research.
    Bush had no such rule. Bush did prevent additional fed expenditures towards embryonic stem cell research (ESCR). Bush did not prevent fed funding of stem cell research generally.

    1) As far as abortion goes, I believe it should be legal in those states which want it, and illegal in those which don't. It is up to the states themselves, and none of the Federal government's business. This is the reason that I am opposed to Roe v. Wade, just as I am opposed to any effort to federally criminalize abortion.
    I agree, but the pro-abortionists persuaded the high court to usurp the democratic process and remove from political consideration public policy related to abortion.

    2) When you give Federal money for abortion counseling, you are essentially disrespecting the beliefs of those states which made abortion illegal. Yes, I am in favor of a woman's right to choose, but I would not dare to hit those who disagree with me over the head with my belief any more than I would agree with somebody hitting me over the head with a Bible and telling me I am going to hell.
    But states cannot determine whether it is illegal or not. They can restrict it, but not make it illegal.

    3) America is not a one size fits all nation. Different areas of the country have different beliefs, and they are entitled to them. Whether a state supports or bans abortion is, frankly, none of the Federal government's business.
    Well, I agree with the overall point but it's rather moot given Griswold and Roe.

    EgOffTib, please don't so grossly caricature the arguments of those you disagree with. You don't have to share the moral and ethical concerns or conclusions of those who oppose federally-funded ESCR or generally oppose ESCR. There are legitimate disagreements on this issue even if you seek to shout down dissent with gross caricatures of those you disagree with,

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    EgOffTib, please don't so grossly caricature the arguments of those you disagree with. You don't have to share the moral and ethical concerns or conclusions of those who oppose federally-funded ESCR or generally oppose ESCR. There are legitimate disagreements on this issue even if you seek to shout down dissent with gross caricatures of those you disagree with,
    I have yet to hear any, but am more than willing to let you make your case.
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    I have yet to hear any, but am more than willing to let you make your case.
    Then you're not looking hard enough or you're simply not interested in acknowledging such arguments.

    Come on, this debate has been going on for years and you're going to sit there and argue that you have not seen any legitimate arguments opposing federally-funded ESCR or ESCR more generally? Then I can onyl conclude that you simply will, by default, characterize any disagreement with you on this issue as illegitimate, i.e., that you are unwilling to acknowledge any legitimate argument.

    Or are you saying that you've not ever seen an argument presented at all against fed-funded ESCR or ESCR generally?

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Or are you saying that you've not ever seen an argument presented at all against fed-funded ESCR or ESCR generally?
    I have never seen one that is not based on emotion and/or "religious morals". Again, please present me with one.
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Bush had no such rule. Bush did prevent additional fed expenditures towards embryonic stem cell research (ESCR). Bush did not prevent fed funding of stem cell research generally.



    I agree, but the pro-abortionists persuaded the high court to usurp the democratic process and remove from political consideration public policy related to abortion.



    But states cannot determine whether it is illegal or not. They can restrict it, but not make it illegal.



    Well, I agree with the overall point but it's rather moot given Griswold and Roe.

    EgOffTib, please don't so grossly caricature the arguments of those you disagree with. You don't have to share the moral and ethical concerns or conclusions of those who oppose federally-funded ESCR or generally oppose ESCR. There are legitimate disagreements on this issue even if you seek to shout down dissent with gross caricatures of those you disagree with,
    Actually, he did, by limiting what kinds of stem cells could be used. Also, from the link I provided:

    Although Obama can change some Bush policies through executive fiat, he also has the option of pushing new laws through Congress. Stem-cell research is an area where Obama is weighing the merits of each approach. In a recent interview with CNN, he said he might try to lift the stem-cell research limitations through legislation.
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    I have never seen one that is not based on emotion and/or "religious morals". Again, please present me with one.
    So, the only arguments against ESCR or fed-funded ESCR that you have seen have rested only on "emotion" or "religious morals?"

    I have to ask then, is any argument that rests on a moral or ethical objection an illegitimate argument?

    Here's my take on ESCR and fed-funded ESCR:

    There are now alternatives to destroying embryoes in pursuing ESCR, e.g., cord blood, cell reprogramming, and, as such, we can avoid all of the ethical and moral entanglements that come with destroying embryoes for scientific research.

    On fed funding, I see no problem with the President directing fed expenditures on ESCR be stopped or resumed. I don't think that federal dollars should be used to subsidize the destruction of human embryoes as such ependitures subsidize the collection of embryoes for scientific research only.

    Yes, these are ethical and moral problems that I have with such research. You can disagree and argue that such problems are outweighed by the promise of such research (and it remains only a decades-long promise), but don't simply dismiss it as illegitimate.

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Actually, he did, by limiting what kinds of stem cells could be used. Also, from the link I provided:
    Embryonic stem cells. Not adult stem cells. Please try to get the terminology correct. Opponents of Bush's funding policy have deliberately mischaracterized Bush's policy as restricting stem cell research generally when, in fact, Bush's policy permitted using fed funds on existing embryonic stem cell lines and restricting fed funding on new embryonic stem cell lines.

    There's are important distinctions between embryonic and non-embryonic stem cell research and the policy implications of each. The way you drafted your initial post completely blurred those distinctions.

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Wish they'd quit spending my money. Guess I couldn't expect that sort of change, huh?
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