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Thread: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Yes, we can.
    In fact, we need to waste money in order to stimulate the economy.
    I just read it yesterday in TIME.
    I'd rather waste it on this than on abstinence-only education.
    You just had eight fracking years of "your way".
    Now it's time for me to have it my way.
    Surely you didn't think the conservative fundamentalist idyll could last forever?
    You guys nearly destroyed the @#$%ing world.

    Our turn.
    Yes and I'm sure that while you're getting it your way you're fully understand people being just as silent in their complaints as your side have been. You know, I mean, NO ONE on the left EVER complained about the way Bush went about things so naturally republicans shouldn't make a peep for the next ffour years.


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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes and I'm sure that while you're getting it your way you're fully understand people being just as silent in their complaints as your side have been. You know, I mean, NO ONE on the left EVER complained about the way Bush went about things so naturally republicans shouldn't make a peep for the next ffour years.

    Well, to be fair people complained about Bush after he was elected because of how close the race was and how the electoral college said that Bush won, yet the popular vote said that Gore won. People did unite behind Bush after 9/11 too, but that only really lasted until the Iraq war and that's when people really started to criticize him. I'm not trying to justify their complaints, I'm just saying there was a bit more cause there. A lot of people on the right (Rush Limbaugh for instance) are hoping that Obama fails and considering the economic crisis that we are in and all of the other crap I think it's important that we unite at least on that front. That doesn't mean that you can't criticize the man's policies that you didn't agree with in the first place, though.

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The problem with this is that leaving it up to the states leaves the states open to instituting laws which could be wrong. For example. Lets say Washington put a ban on abortion. Law stating that if anyone that lives in Wasington State had an abortion then they would be prosecuted for 1st degree murder. But next door in Idaho abortion is legal. Someone from Washington wants and abortion so they go to Idaho to get it done. They come back to Washington and get turned in by a very nosey nieghbor. This person then gets prosecuted for having an abortion...even though she did it in a state where it is legal. This is why the Federal Government had to take control of the issue. It leaves the states open to make laws that could contradict anothers states laws. IE it leaves it open for abuse.


    This links into 1. Something that you also must remember is that for many (certainly not all) the abortion issue is a religious issue. And the government cannot make laws based upon religion.



    You are correct here. However for certain issues like abortion a "one size fits all" is a must.
    Hahaha, this is choice. Only the federal govt can avoid making the wrong laws. Great logic.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    That's kind of my point. i've stated in other places that mindless insulting of pointless things for Obama is as stupid as it is for Bush.

    But arguing about his change to abortion policy is well...arguing about POLICY. It IS criticizing him on an issue. Just like criticizing Bush about banning embryonic stem cell research or abstinence only education was criticizing policy. And the left did a hell of a lot of complaining about those things (and some on the right too). And now that the left is in control and doing their things, it is patently ignorant and purely pompous to believe that those on the right shouldn't, won't, and can't do the exact same thing now that things THEY don't agree with are being inacted.

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    I'd say that diminishing the supposed value of an embryo is taking emotion out of it rather than putting it into the situation. Could you please elaborate to me just why embryonic stem cells are somehow "greater than that"? It's still a cell. The fact that you try to build it up as something more important without being able to back it up makes it an emotional argument for you.
    I will never understand some of you people.

    I'm building up an embryonic stem cell as something more important? What about the embryonic stem cell research advocates that keep telling us how much more promising embryonic stem cells are relative to non-embryonic stem cells in deriving medical treatments and cures? There is absolutely nothing whatsoever to back up such rhetoric despite decades of ESCR being conducted.

    Talk about building something up without being able to back it up...

    It is indisputable that an embryo ain't simply a cell, but a collection of cells with one purpose - human life. An embryo does not exist for any other reason than to become a human life. Hence, destroying that embryo simply for research necessarily means that you're creating life simply to destroy it. Some people have legitimate ethical and moral problems with this, including stem cell research scientists. This is even more grievous when we have developed alternative ESCR techniques that do not require destroying embryoes, such as blodd cord stem cells and cell reprogramming that takes a non-embryonic stem cell and it transformed into a cell that behaves just like an embryonic stem cell.

    What is emtional here are these empty appeals to research that has yielded no actual medical treatment. It's all a promise to heal and stop the suffering of individuals afflicted by some injury or disease.

    You people have nothing more than sticking your headin the sand to ignore legit ethical and moral considerations in your emotionally wicked need to destroy human life in pursuit of a decades-long promise that has achieved no medical treatments.

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    I will never understand some of you people.

    I'm building up an embryonic stem cell as something more important? What about the embryonic stem cell research advocates that keep telling us how much more promising embryonic stem cells are relative to non-embryonic stem cells in deriving medical treatments and cures? There is absolutely nothing whatsoever to back up such rhetoric despite decades of ESCR being conducted.

    Talk about building something up without being able to back it up...

    It is indisputable that an embryo ain't simply a cell, but a collection of cells with one purpose - human life. An embryo does not exist for any other reason than to become a human life. Hence, destroying that embryo simply for research necessarily means that you're creating life simply to destroy it. Some people have legitimate ethical and moral problems with this, including stem cell research scientists. This is even more grievous when we have developed alternative ESCR techniques that do not require destroying embryoes, such as blodd cord stem cells and cell reprogramming that takes a non-embryonic stem cell and it transformed into a cell that behaves just like an embryonic stem cell.

    What is emtional here are these empty appeals to research that has yielded no actual medical treatment. It's all a promise to heal and stop the suffering of individuals afflicted by some injury or disease.

    You people have nothing more than sticking your headin the sand to ignore legit ethical and moral considerations in your emotionally wicked need to destroy human life in pursuit of a decades-long promise that has achieved no medical treatments.
    Excellent.

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    I will never understand some of you people.

    I'm building up an embryonic stem cell as something more important? What about the embryonic stem cell research advocates that keep telling us how much more promising embryonic stem cells are relative to non-embryonic stem cells in deriving medical treatments and cures? There is absolutely nothing whatsoever to back up such rhetoric despite decades of ESCR being conducted.

    Talk about building something up without being able to back it up...

    It is indisputable that an embryo ain't simply a cell, but a collection of cells with one purpose - human life. An embryo does not exist for any other reason than to become a human life. Hence, destroying that embryo simply for research necessarily means that you're creating life simply to destroy it. Some people have legitimate ethical and moral problems with this, including stem cell research scientists. This is even more grievous when we have developed alternative ESCR techniques that do not require destroying embryoes, such as blodd cord stem cells and cell reprogramming that takes a non-embryonic stem cell and it transformed into a cell that behaves just like an embryonic stem cell.

    What is emtional here are these empty appeals to research that has yielded no actual medical treatment. It's all a promise to heal and stop the suffering of individuals afflicted by some injury or disease.

    You people have nothing more than sticking your headin the sand to ignore legit ethical and moral considerations in your emotionally wicked need to destroy human life in pursuit of a decades-long promise that has achieved no medical treatments.
    And you're telling me that isn't an emotional argument?

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    And you're telling me that isn't an emotional argument?
    Unnecessary waste of money on invalid "research" to appease greedy Pharmaceutical companies who make $$$ off from people who suffer. In the end--it is a WASTE of money...that ALSO is ethically corrupt.
    Last edited by Felicity; 01-22-09 at 12:14 PM.

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    We should take emotions into consideration, but shouldn't let them get in the way of scientific progression.
    I love how you people have reduced legit ethical and moral questions into simple emotional impulses.

    I just have to wonder, though, if you people believe that ethics and morality play no role, why does the US not have a eugenics regime? I mean, you liberals, errr, progressives, were all about eugenics back in the day...what happened? Why is the US not permitting the harvesting of organs from death row inmates? Why is the US not permitting babies born with defects to be killed in the moments after delivery? Are you telling me that these policies have not ethical and moral foundation to them?

    You guys are being completely intellectually dishonest here. The issue is whether the federal government should be subsidizing this research with public dollars. This is a public policy debate. While science informs policy debate, it is not and never has been a determining policy factor. Consequently, not only does scientific considerations become involved in the debate, but also fiscal responsibilities, ethical and moral considerations, legal responsibilities, etc.

    Please stop pretending that our nation is led by the nose by scientists...or that we have a preference for such leadership.

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post


    Unnecessary waste of money on invalid "research" to appease greedy Pharmaceutical companies who make $$$ off from people who suffer. In the end--it is a WASTE of money...that ALSO is ethically corrupt.
    That's not what the poster I was replying to was using. He brought in the whole "life" argument which I would categorize as an emotional argument.

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