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Thread: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Lawful does not always equal correct. The de jure definition of a person does not necessarily translate into the de facto definition of a person.
    I agree. The problem is that we will never be able to come to an agreement on what the term "person" encompasses and whether or not a fetus fits into that definition.
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I'm right because SCOTUS says so...good argument.
    When the discussion switches to debating the legality of the issue then the SCOTUS does settle the argument.

    As for settleing the moral/ethical argument, no they don't. But I'm sure you caught on to the subtle difference.
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    I agree. The problem is that we will never be able to come to an agreement on what the term "person" encompasses and whether or not a fetus fits into that definition.
    I'm talking about living members of the species HOMO sapien. A "fetus" is a living member of the species HOMO sapien, consequently it should be viewed as such. You were once a "fetus" as was I and every other "person" on the planet. Did you all of a sudden become something else once you reached viability or were born? The distinctions pro-choicers draw between a "fetus" and a "person" are meaningless and arbitrary. This isn't about coming to an agreement, it's about pro-choicers accepting the facts. Sorry if I sound harsh but I'm a grizzled abortion forum veteran...it can get nasty down there.

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    When the discussion switches to debating the legality of the issue then the SCOTUS does settle the argument.

    As for settleing the moral/ethical argument, no they don't. But I'm sure you caught on to the subtle difference.
    I'm quite sure that Felicity is well aware of the legal status of both abortion and the unborn, so I'm not sure what you hoped to accomplish by pointing that out. It's pretty much standard practice for the abortion debate to assume an ethical/moral context since the legal aspect of the debate is already settled. Perhaps I missed something...

  5. #145
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post


    Unnecessary waste of money on invalid "research" to appease greedy Pharmaceutical companies who make $$$ off from people who suffer. In the end--it is a WASTE of money...that ALSO is ethically corrupt.
    Don't tell you you seriously expect that results for something so complicated to happen in just a short time do you? Hell they've been working practically non-stop on a way to cure HIV/AIDS for YEARS and they still haven't come up with anything. Should we just give it up an call it wasted money also just because there's been no conclusive results?

    You may not like the fact that there are people out there that consider an embryo nothing more than a clump of cells but thats the way it is. You're not going to change their mind anymore than I'm going to change yours. And you have no right to force your ideals, your beliefs, on people anymore than I have a right to enforce mine on you.
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  6. #146
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I'm talking about living members of the species HOMO sapien. A "fetus" is a living member of the species HOMO sapien, consequently it should be viewed as such.
    I do. I just don't attribute so much because of it. There is no reason to. There's a disconnect in logic why simply being human is special. Try to break it down further and determine why being human is an example of something special.

    You were once a "fetus" as was I and every other "person" on the planet. Did you all of a sudden become something else once you reached viability or were born?
    Yes!!!! Sometime during that time I achieved self-awareness.

    The distinctions pro-choicers draw between a "fetus" and a "person" are meaningless and arbitrary. This isn't about coming to an agreement, it's about pro-choicers accepting the facts.
    If you are bounded in a nutshell then of course you consider yourself king of infinite space. But when you realize you are in a nutshell your perception changes dramatically..
    Sorry if I sound harsh but I'm a grizzled abortion forum veteran...it can get nasty down there.
    Agree. Let's do our best to keep it nice up here.
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Does it say "person" or "human" or "homo sapien sapien" or ... Nope just "person". Funny how, if I remember correctly, RvW decided fetuses were not "people". (I'll have to double check tonight. They may have just avoided the issue because they could come to no objective conclusion on the matter. Its been awhile since I read the opinion of the court).
    I present Exhibit "A" --EXACTLY the same sort of reasoning used to enslave Americans is used to justify killing another segment of human beings. Dred Scott anyone?

    Oh yeah, and by your standards you must keep the braindead on life support until they atrophy to physical death otherwise you are a murderer.
    After all this time you STILL don't get it. ACTIVELY killing someone is different from not treating terminal illness.

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Don't tell you you seriously expect that results for something so complicated to happen in just a short time do you? Hell they've been working practically non-stop on a way to cure HIV/AIDS for YEARS and they still haven't come up with anything. Should we just give it up an call it wasted money also just because there's been no conclusive results?
    There have been advances with AIDS research--no cure, but it is treatable. There is ZERO from embryonic SCR...not a little bit Z>E>R>O...zip, zilch, none, nada, nuttin. PLUS OTHER SCR using adult and cord blood have yielded many.

    And you have no right to force your ideals, your beliefs, on people anymore than I have a right to enforce mine on you.
    Apparently--according to your reasoning--that is exactly what you're doing since we disagree and it's happening.

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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    I present Exhibit "A" --EXACTLY the same sort of reasoning used to enslave Americans is used to justify killing another segment of human beings. Dred Scott anyone?
    and as my exhibit I present PETA and "whale wars". The same sort of reasoning used to killl innocent beings.
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    and as my exhibit I present PETA and "whale wars". The same sort of reasoning used to killl innocent beings.
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