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Thread: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

  1. #101
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    "I don't want--what he's talking about is the absorption of as much of the private sector by the US government as possible. from the banking business, the mortgage industry, the automobile business, to the healthcare--I do not want the government in charge of all these things. I don't want this to work!...I hope he fails."
    And there we have it. Rush thinks Obama's policies constitute a deliberate and intentional nationalization of private institutions/business by the government. Rush wants Obama to fail in that respect.

    What is illegitimate about opposing the nationalization of large sectors of the private economy?

  2. #102
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    "I don't want--what he's talking about is the absorption of as much of the private sector by the US government as possible. from the banking business, the mortgage industry, the automobile business, to the healthcare--I do not want the government in charge of all these things. I don't want this to work!...I hope he fails."
    Yes and we know that he and other conservatives disagree with Obama's policies. We got the memo during the election. The point is that we are having an economic crisis right now and we should give him our support because we are kind of relying on him to help get us out of this mess. And his policies and politics are tied to how he's going to fix the economy. Like I said, it's one thing to disagree with his politics and policies. But to say that you hope he fails is basically saying that you don't give a rat's ass about the economic crisis and how it affects us all. That's what I take issue with. You can try to spin this however you want, but the man said he hopes Obama fails.

  3. #103
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    I will never understand some of you people.

    I'm building up an embryonic stem cell as something more important? What about the embryonic stem cell research advocates that keep telling us how much more promising embryonic stem cells are relative to non-embryonic stem cells in deriving medical treatments and cures? There is absolutely nothing whatsoever to back up such rhetoric despite decades of ESCR being conducted.

    Talk about building something up without being able to back it up...
    So why ban it then? If the merits of the research fail then why would people spend money on it? <Sarcasm>Oh yea, its all a conspiracy to kill babies and steal money! </sarcasm> So what is your thinking on why its so important to ban research funding for it, moral issues aside?

    It is indisputable that an embryo ain't simply a cell, but a collection of cells with one purpose - human life.
    Yea? And? Is an acorn an oak tree? Is a sperm and an egg a human? Are the molecules that will make up a sperm and an egg a human? You've setup an infinite regress yet for no logical reason you choose conception as a special point in the infinite regress. Why is that? Why is conception more important than a egg or sperm or the molecules that will make eggs and sperm and so on into infinity?

    An embryo does not exist for any other reason than to become a human life. Hence, destroying that embryo simply for research necessarily means that you're creating life simply to destroy it.
    see above.

    Some people have legitimate ethical and moral problems with this, including stem cell research scientists. This is even more grievous when we have developed alternative ESCR techniques that do not require destroying embryoes, such as blodd cord stem cells and cell reprogramming that takes a non-embryonic stem cell and it transformed into a cell that behaves just like an embryonic stem cell.
    great. Others do not agree based on equal if not greater reasoning.

    What is emtional here are these empty appeals to research that has yielded no actual medical treatment. It's all a promise to heal and stop the suffering of individuals afflicted by some injury or disease.
    Only if one chooses to ignore the fact that attempting to cure disease is a a virtuous endeavor in and of itself.

    You people have nothing more than sticking your headin the sand to ignore legit ethical and moral considerations in your emotionally wicked need to destroy human life in pursuit of a decades-long promise that has achieved no medical treatments.
    True, IFF one is to believe your view on abortion. I've yet to see why such a view is compelling.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  4. #104
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Yes and we know that he and other conservatives disagree with Obama's policies. We got the memo during the election. The point is that we are having an economic crisis right now and we should give him our support because we are kind of relying on him to help get us out of this mess. And his policies and politics are tied to how he's going to fix the economy. Like I said, it's one thing to disagree with his politics and policies. But to say that you hope he fails is basically saying that you don't give a rat's ass about the economic crisis and how it affects us all. That's what I take issue with. You can try to spin this however you want, but the man said he hopes Obama fails.
    when I have already heard about what he plans to do w/ abortion and gun control, I hope he fails too. I think his policies--social, economic and otherwise--if he succeeds, will be extremely harmful to the country. maybe he won't have enough time or influence to make all the changes he's been talking about.

  5. #105
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Oh my goodness...

    Bush only imposed fed funding restrictions on ESCR, not stem cell research.

    And I cannot believe that you're arguing that "you can't do as much with non-embryonic stem cells." And I cannot believe someone thanked you for arguing as such. Despite your false assertion that we cannot do much with non-embryonic stem cells we have seen nearly a hundred medical treatments derived from non-embryonic stem cells. How many from embryonic stem cells? Well? What? Zero? Your argument is garbage and it is ignorant.

    Obama's reversal of Bush's restrictions does not "opening up of ALL embryonic stem cell lines." It simply means that federal funding may be used to fund embryonic stem cell lines that were created after 2001 when Bush imposed the restriction. Meanwhile, in the real world, new embryonic stem cell lines have been created all over the US and the world.

    Please don't pretend that the restrictions on fed funding of ESCR caused ESCR to stop. During this time Cali has fronted several billion public dollars while other states have also promised public subsidies for ESCR, multiple private/public financing ventures involving Harvard and Stanford have arisen, and there are dozens of private firms conducting ESCR.

    Obama's policy reversal only affects the expenditure of federal dollars.
    My God, what cherrypicking!! Embryonic stem cells ARE stem cells. I said restrictions on stem cells. You say I said something different because embryonic stem cells are NOT stem cells. In essence, you are attempting to use some preztel logic to claim I said something I didn't say.

    Embryonic stem cells ARE a subset of stem cells, so my argument holds. Bush restricted Federal dollars to stem cell research. Duhhhhhh!!

    Damn, I have seen some weird pretzel logic arguments in my years at DP, but you have just taken the cake.
    Last edited by danarhea; 01-22-09 at 01:09 PM.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

  6. #106
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Yes and we know that he and other conservatives disagree with Obama's policies. We got the memo during the election. The point is that we are having an economic crisis right now and we should give him our support because we are kind of relying on him to help get us out of this mess.
    If we were to support Obama during this crisis like the left supported Bush after 9-11, we'd be arguing that Obama was part of a plot to cause the current crisis.

    And his policies and politics are tied to how he's going to fix the economy. Like I said, it's one thing to disagree with his politics and policies. But to say that you hope he fails is basically saying that you don't give a rat's ass about the economic crisis and how it affects us all.
    Not necessarily so. Its perfectly legitimate to argue that the policies he wants to put in place will cause more long-term harm that the current recession. Thus, there is nothing inherently wrong with hoping that Obama fails.

  7. #107
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    when I have already heard about what he plans to do w/ abortion and gun control, I hope he fails too. I think his policies--social, economic and otherwise--if he succeeds, will be extremely harmful to the country. maybe he won't have enough time or influence to make all the changes he's been talking about.
    Well, considering the shape our country is in, I don't think we can afford fail.

  8. #108
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Well, considering the shape our country is in, I don't think we can afford fail.
    considering the shape our country is in, I think fail is our only hope. I don't want him to have a terrible presidency marked by disaster and trauma, but for the sake of the country I hope he doesn't succeed in doing what he says he will.

  9. #109
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If we were to support Obama during this crisis like the left supported Bush after 9-11, we'd be arguing that Obama was part of a plot to cause the current crisis.
    Oh, bull****. Right after 9/11 people threw their support behind Bush. His approval ratings went through the roof. Only later on did some moronic people pull the whole "Bush is behind 9/11" crap.

    Not necessarily so. Its perfectly legitimate to argue that the policies he wants to put in place will cause more long-term harm that the current recession. Thus, there is nothing inherently wrong with hoping that Obama fails.
    Well, considering the fact that he's the President and that the hopes of our country improving kind of rests on his shoulders I disagree with your assertion.

  10. #110
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    Re: Obama To Alter Abortion Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    considering the shape our country is in, I think fail is our only hope. I don't want him to have a terrible presidency marked by disaster and trauma, but for the sake of the country I hope he doesn't succeed in doing what he says he will.
    Fail is our only hope?
    Yeah, that makes sense.

    Anything for partisan politics, right?

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