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EU cannot trust Russia or Ukraine, Barroso says

Nor can it ever trust Russia.
 
ludahai said:
Definately true about Russia. I am reserving judgment on Ukraine.
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I hope for the sake of Ukraine that we will forgive them.. If there is one nation I am glad will be in the EU and look forward to its Ukraine. Its a damn strong nation, with massive potential that will be fulfilled when they join us. It can become one of the strongest nations in Europe just a few decades after it joins us.
 
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Maximus Zeebra said:
I hope for the sake of Ukraine that we will forgive them.. If there is one nation I am glad will be in the EU and look forward to its Ukraine. Its a damn strong nation, with massive potential that will be fulfilled when they join us. It can become one of the strongest nations in Europe just a few decades after it joins us.
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Nation of Unkraine speaks, understand, talks and walks Russian, you don't.

Russia scores again. It does not care that you don't trust Russia. For Russia - it is given. Now the EU says it does not trust Russia AND Ukraine. Russia scores again. It gets Ukraine on its side.
 
justone said:
Nation of Unkraine speaks, understand, talks and walks Russian, you don't.

Russia scores again. It does not care that you don't trust Russia. For Russia - it is given. Now the EU says it does not trust Russia AND Ukraine. Russia scores again. It gets Ukraine on its side.
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Except that Ukraine is far more open than Russia is and will be able to get back in the good graces of the West. Russia is a dictatorship whose way of doing things is not acceptable to most people in the West as well as their governments. The only weapon Russia has over Western Europe is its massive gas reserves. Once the West gets off of its fossil fuel habit, it will be nearly as impotant as the Arab States will be once that happens. Ukraine, on the other hand, has a far brighter long-term future than Russia has as its resources will be valuable far into the future.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
I hope for the sake of Ukraine that we will forgive them.. If there is one nation I am glad will be in the EU and look forward to its Ukraine. Its a damn strong nation, with massive potential that will be fulfilled when they join us. It can become one of the strongest nations in Europe just a few decades after it joins us.
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France won't allow this. With decades of seeking ways to be equal to America on the world stage by undermining efforts and being a general pain nin the ass...you think France will welcome Ukraine as the strongest power in Europe? No way.
 
ludahai said:
Except that Ukraine is far more open than Russia is and will be able to get back in the good graces of the West. Russia is a dictatorship whose way of doing things is not acceptable to most people in the West as well as their governments. The only weapon Russia has over Western Europe is its massive gas reserves.
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Their gas is not really a weapons against us as long as we comprise of 60% of all their trade and they only 5% of ours.

I am certain that Ukraine will be welcomed back in the good company shortly.. It just needs to be punished for a little while, just to feel the whip.
 
GySgt said:
France won't allow this. With decades of seeking ways to be equal to America on the world stage by undermining efforts and being a general pain nin the ass...you think France will welcome Ukraine as the strongest power in Europe? No way.
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Well.. Its not about that. Ukraine will eventually join the European union. Thats a certainty. Once it does there is nothing France can do. I am certain that in 2050 the only country in Europe that will be stronger than Ukraine is Germany.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Well.. Its not about that. Ukraine will eventually join the European union. Thats a certainty. Once it does there is nothing France can do. I am certain that in 2050 the only country in Europe that will be stronger than Ukraine is Germany.
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Funny, I spend a ton of time in Europe, that's why I love the natives so :), and cannot recall any talk about Ukraine becoming a member.
 
zimmer said:
Funny, I spend a ton of time in Europe, that's why I love the natives so :), and cannot recall any talk about Ukraine becoming a member.
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Well.. They arent official candidate yet(I think), but we are negotiating, Ukraine have to show good will, and the orange revolution for example showed some of this. We have to see a few examples of real good will before we start the negotiation process, and once that is started, Ukraine have to change in a LOT of ways to ever become a member.. But they will, eventually.
Every time we push Ukraine to adopt some of our policies they are ever closer to becoming a candidate country.. Much of the change in Ukraine the last 10 years is due to this process.
 
ludahai said:
Except that Ukraine is far more open than Russia is and will be able to get back in the good graces of the West. .
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It is an empty rhetoric which has no connection to the article in the discussion. So far Russia scores again when Barroso claims that Ukraine cannot be trusted. Your rhetoric has no grounds.



ludahai said:
Russia is a dictatorship whose way of doing things is not acceptable to most people in the West as well as their governments. .
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But again, try to concentrate on my words you’ve quoted. Most people of Ukraine – as they talk and walk Russian - may lean to accept what is not acceptable to most people in the West as well as their governments.



ludahai said:
The only weapon Russia has over Western Europe is its massive gas reserves. .
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Speaking about weapons you are utterly wrong, Russia has a lot more than gas to stop democracy at its borders, and first of all it has the will of the peoples of the RF.


ludahai said:
Once the West gets off of its fossil fuel habit, it will be nearly as impotant as the Arab States will be once that happens. .
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“Once” - when a fat lady sings, or like they say in Russia and Ukraine- when a crawfish whistles from under a hill. Ukraine will riot against getting off the fossil fuel habit. Russia scores again – Ukraine pays 20% less for gas then the West does. When 37.7% of population live below poverty line they wouldn’t not pay for alternative heat as much as obedient Westerners ordered by their governments would in your scheme - if to imagine a crawfish whistling.

ludahai said:
Ukraine, on the other hand, has a far brighter long-term future than Russia has as its resources will be valuable far into the future. .
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Again your rhetoric is not based on anything, you just express your hatred to Russia and sympathy to Ukraine – for some unknown reasons:


Ukraine:

Imports - partners:
Russia 28.2%, Germany 11.7%, Poland 7.6%, China 7%, Turkmenistan 5.7% (2006)

Exports - partners:
Russia 21.4%, Turkey 7.1%, Italy 6.4%, US 4.1% (2006)

Population below poverty line:
37.7% (2003)

Russia:

Russia posted gross domestic product growth of 6.4% in 1999, 10% in 2000, 5.1% in 2001, 4.7% in 2002, 7.3% in 2003, 7.2% in 2004, 6.4% in 2005, 7.4% in 2006 and 8.1% in 2007[8] with industrial sector posting high growth figures as well. Russia is currently the fastest growing economy in the G8.

Russia has been experiencing a boom in capital investment since the beginning of 2007. Capital investment showed record growth in June, rising 27.2 percent over June of last year in real terms (adjusted for price changes), to 579.8 billion rubles, with construction industry leading the way. That is a rise of 58 percent in nominal terms and a better showing than in China. Modern Russia has never before seen such a growth rate. The rate of investment in Russia rose 22.3 percent in the first half of 2007 compared to the same period the year before. The increase during that period in 2005 was only 11 percent. The statistics significantly exceed both the conservative prognoses of the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade and less conservative independent analyses. According to Interfax, the consensus among analysts at the end of last month 15.3-percent growth compared to last year. [9]

On January 1, 2004, the Stabilization fund of the Russian Federation was established by the Government of Russia as a part of the federal budget to balance it if oil price falls.
Under the Putin administration, Russia's economy saw the nominal Gross Domestic Product (GDP) increase 6 fold, climbing from 22nd to 11th largest in the world. In 2007, Russia's GDP exceeded that of 1990, meaning it has overcome the devastating consequences of the 1998 financial crisis and preceding recession in the 1990s.[11]
During Putin's eight years in office, industry grew by 75%, investments increased by 125%,[11] and agricultural production and construction increased as well. Real incomes more than doubled and the average salary increased eightfold from $80 to $640.[12][13][14] The volume of consumer credit between 2000–2006 increased 45 times,[15][16] and during that same time period, the middle class grew from 8 million to 55 million, an increase of 7 times. The number of people living below the poverty line also decreased from 30% in 2000 to 14% in 2008.[11][17][18]
The Heritage Foundation - Conservative Policy Research and Analysis

Ukraine's economic freedom score is 48.8, making its economy the 152nd freest in the 2009 Index. Its score is 2.2 points lower than last year, reflecting deteriorating economic freedom in seven areas. Ukraine is ranked 42nd out of 43 countries in the Europe region


Russia's economic freedom score is 50.8, making its economy the 146th freest in the 2009 Index. Its score is 1 point higher than last year, reflecting improved scores in four of the 10 economic freedoms, especially trade freedom. Russia is ranked 41st out of 43 countries in the Europe region


As one can see the NUMBERS show that as long as Russia keeps democracy at a distance has a far brighter long-term future than rotted by democracy Ukraine even according to the perception of the democratic source.


I don’t know if you can be reasoned to, so far you have been spitting an empty rhetoric..
 
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Maximus Zeebra said:
Well.. They arent official candidate yet(I think), but we are negotiating, Ukraine have to show good will, and the orange revolution for example showed some of this. We have to see a few examples of real good will before we start the negotiation process, and once that is started, Ukraine have to change in a LOT of ways to ever become a member.. But they will, eventually.
Every time we push Ukraine to adopt some of our policies they are ever closer to becoming a candidate country.. Much of the change in Ukraine the last 10 years is due to this process.
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Ukrainians May Oppose President?s Pro-Western Goals

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The recent conflict between Russia and Georgia sparked a division within Ukraine's Western-leaning governing coalition that eventually contributed to its collapse in mid-September. Prior to these events, a Gallup Poll found a strong majority of Ukrainians (65%) saying their leadership is taking the country in the wrong direction and only about one in six (16%) expressing confidence in their national government.


Ukrainians are more likely to approve of Russia's leadership than the leaderships of Western nations such as the France, Germany, the United Kingdom, and United States. Approval of Russia's leadership in Ukraine has increased significantly, from 45% approval in 2006 to 59% in 2008.

A Gallup Poll conducted in Ukraine suggests that this low approval rating for Yushchenko may be reflective of pro-Moscow sentiment expressed by many Ukrainians. Prior to Russia's conflict with Georgia, Gallup finds that many Ukrainians favored strong relations with Russia, even if this might hurt their country's relations with the United States and the European Union.


Kyiv Post. Independence. Community. Trust. » Homepage » World » Poll: Despite crisis, Putin has sky-high approval ratings
MOSCOW Jan 22 (Reuters) - Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has retained sky-high approval ratings despite an economic crisis that has put hundreds of thousands out of work and cut 20 percent off the value of the rouble, a poll showed on Thursday
Eighty-three percent of Russians polled by the independent Levada Centre said they approved of Putin's leadership, the same level recorded in October.
Ukraine opposition seeks to oust Yushchenko over gas crisis — EUbusiness.com - business, legal and economic news and information from the European Union

The popularity of Ukraine's pro-Western president has plummeted amid the gas crisis, which began January 1 when Russia cut supplies to Ukraine in a payment dispute.
Yushchenko's approval rating hit 2.4 percent according to a poll published Monday by the Democratic Initiatives organisation, which is backed by Sweden's government.
Washington Times - Yushchenko mars Orange anniversary
Nov. 22 was the fourth anniversary of the Orange Revolution and, in the West and in Ukraine, fatigue is growing with Viktor Yushchenko, Ukraine's president and erstwhile Orange Revolution hero.
On Ukraine's domestic front, Ukrainians blame Mr. Yushchenko for four years of political instability that have led to repeated crises and the likelihood that five governments and three elections will come and go before the end of his first term in office.
On the fourth anniversary of the revolution that brought Mr. Yushchenko to power, a newly released survey by the International Foundation for Electoral Studies (IFES) found increasing pessimism among Ukrainians regarding the direction in which their country is headed. Mr. Yushchenko's job-approval rating stands at 3 percent.
Support for NATO membership … currently oscillates between one-quarter and one-third of the Ukrainian people.




THE WEST MAY SPEND A LOT MORE $BILLIONS TO FORCE THE UNKRANIAN PEOPLE TO DEMOCRACY. TAKING IN THE CONSIDERATION THE PRESENT CRISIS THE WEST MAY RUN OUT OF MONEY BEFORE ACOMPLISHING THE TASK.
 
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jujuman13 said:
Nor can it ever trust Russia.
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Yeah but it can't be trusted either look at the Lisbon treaty fiasco. It's constitution was voted against in several referenda so it draw up the Lisbon treaty that is basically the same but this time the scumbags try and avoid referenda and they do in all countries except Ireland which is mandated to have one by its constitution. The Lisbon treaty is defeated there but it is ratified in many other EU countries despite the fact it can't officially come into force until all EU nations ratify it and they begin scheming about how to force Ireland, or the Irish people to accept it including another referendum.

Very trustworthy.:roll:
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Well.. Its not about that. Ukraine will eventually join the European union. Thats a certainty. Once it does there is nothing France can do. I am certain that in 2050 the only country in Europe that will be stronger than Ukraine is Germany.
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God willing Britain will not be in the EUroplot in half that time.
 
Vader said:
Russia is a terrorist-supporting country.... so ****'em!
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22irish.span.jpg
 
Vader said:
So?

This picture means nothing... especially since you didn't bother to add a comment.
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It speaks for itself. Adams was invited to the Whitehouse every year for more than a decade I believe not to mention the myriad support given to Fenians by America so you are hardly in a position to throw stones.
 
Wessexman said:
you are hardly in a position to throw stones.
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Vader? He throws stones from any position,- does all he is capable of. You may as well suggest that he is hardly in a position to crap his own bed, and that as well would be an unreasonable suggestion, - he does all he is capable of.
 
justone said:
Vader? He throws stones from any position,- does all he is capable of. You may as well suggest that he is hardly in a position to crap his own bed, and that as well would be an unreasonable suggestion, - he does all he is capable of.
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:rofl

That was quite funny.
 
Wessexman said:
Yeah but it can't be trusted either look at the Lisbon treaty fiasco. It's constitution was voted against in several referenda so it draw up the Lisbon treaty that is basically the same but this time the scumbags try and avoid referenda and they do in all countries except Ireland which is mandated to have one by its constitution. The Lisbon treaty is defeated there but it is ratified in many other EU countries despite the fact it can't officially come into force until all EU nations ratify it and they begin scheming about how to force Ireland, or the Irish people to accept it including another referendum.

Very trustworthy.:roll:
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And then again you go with your unrelated anti-EU propaganda. You arent the worst I have seen by far, but this is just completely irrelevant and out of context.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
And then again you go with your unrelated anti-EU propaganda. You arent the worst I have seen by far, but this is just completely irrelevant and out of context.
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It is like your pro-EU propaganda has any priority or it is ever based on any facts, numbers or reason. Are you in a glass house or in your bed?
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
And then again you go with your unrelated anti-EU propaganda. You arent the worst I have seen by far, but this is just completely irrelevant and out of context.
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You are the propagandist What I said was true. And we were discussing hwo Barroso thinks is trustingworthy. Why shouldn't his own trustworthyness and his terrible organisation be brought into question?
 
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