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Thread: Experts: Iran Will Have Nuke This Year

  1. #71
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    Re: Experts: Iran Will Have Nuke This Year

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    So, I suspect that you will demonstrate my lack of such skills?

    Nope.

    Conclusion: You're flailing.
    Your refusal to accept anything you don't like is not my fault. You refuse to accept that your argument is without critical thinking is not proof that I have failed to demonstrate your lack of it. It is proof you fail to accept that it is proof. Similar to how creationists refuse to accept an old year despite the evidence that is millions of miles tall.

    No. It doesn't address what has been stated by all sorts of Iranian's, from president's to the ruling clerics, regarding annihilating Israel.
    In fact it does. It shows that the current president of Iran is using the old tried and true blame outside aggressor for his failures. When Iran was undergoing economic boom, there wasn't a need as economic prosperity was legitimizing as a factor. South Korea is an excellent example of how economic prosperity stopped leaders from making bombastic threatening statements to their neighbors. It is not my fault you basically have no understanding in any way, shape, or form of political unity theory.

    Oh, I see...we just ignore their plain language and read into "annihilate Israel" that some Iranian leader is just playing the rhetoric game, huh?
    Pretty much. He's trying to blame Israel and the US for his failures. The real problem with Iran getting a weapon is that it will scare everyone else into getting weapons. Not that Iran will actually use it.

    Like Obama did when he promised to unilaterally re-open Nafta while backdooring the Canadians promising them that such declarations were rhetorical campaign devices?
    Exactly. Now if you read the memo leaked from Harper (which you clearly didn't), Obama stated he had no intention of following through on that statement. Effectively he said it for votes. The same thing Iran's president is doing.

    I'm disappointed that you grant state supporters of terrorism such benefit of the doubt.
    I'm disappointed you take everything at face value without any critical thinking whatsoever.

    You're a great example of why the American Public School System is a massive joke.

    Right, South Korea booms because it stops threatening the Norks. Any empirical data proving this or are you working off of pure coincidence to guide your foreign policy expertise?
    Amazon.com: Understanding Korean Politics: An Introduction (Suny Series in Korean Studies): Soong Hoom Kil, Chung-In Moon: Books

    Go study South Korea. I have yet to lose a single argument about that yet.

    No, I exercise judgment. And in my judgment, I don't grant state sponsors of terrorism such a high level of benefit of the doubt.
    Actually no you don't. You take it all at face value.

    1) You ignore how economic prosperity in Iran's history reduced its statements
    2) You ignore how economic prosperity in other country's history did the same
    3) You ignore how failing economic times have pushed nations towards blaming outsiders.

    Your entire argument is Iran will use it because he said it. You completely refuse to even acknowledge how economic prosperity or the lack of it changes how a government is viewed in terms of legitimacy.

    I bet you don't even grant Bush an equivalent level of doubt, do you?
    Give me a reason why. And I agree with Bush that Iran wants and is trying to get a weapon. Oh wait. That just refutes you. (doesn't everyone?)

    Doesn't the absence of such examples bolster the case that to make good on their threats to wipe out Israel that they would use their proxy forces in Hamas and Hezbollah?
    Ignorance. Explain to me why Iran would give them a weapon only to be on the receiving end of a nuclear missile launched from Israel or the US. As argued before, there are only really two sources, FSU states or Iran.

    WTF are you thinking?
    Logic, facts, history.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #72
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    Re: Experts: Iran Will Have Nuke This Year

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Newsmax.com - Experts: Iran Will Have Nuke This Year
    I think it's time for Obama to make good on his Jimmy Carter fashioned foreign policy plan to meet with the Iranian kooks without preconditions, do his peace pipe thing, and get his lunch handed to him.

    What a message to the world that will be. Everyone will love us again, and The Kooks just might give up their nukes for a bunch of Tonka toys.

    Hell, my bet is they will be so impressed with B.H. Obama that they'll recant their statement about eliminating Israel and actually ask the Israeli's for forgiveness.

    He better act fast though, time is ticking.
    And Pakistan already has nukes .... oh well.

  3. #73
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    Re: Experts: Iran Will Have Nuke This Year

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Your refusal to accept anything you don't like is not my fault. You refuse to accept that your argument is without critical thinking is not proof that I have failed to demonstrate your lack of it. It is proof you fail to accept that it is proof. Similar to how creationists refuse to accept an old year despite the evidence that is millions of miles tall.
    Okay, so what do we have here? This doesn't even make sense. You post a naked assertion that I allegedly lack the ability to exercise critical thinking skills (I guess based on the fact that you don't agree with my comments). You then accuse me of not being willing to accept argument I don't agree with because I noted that you failed (obviously) to demonstrate how I lack such an ability to exercise criticl thinking skills. Then you proceed to instruct me to simply accept such naked assertions as facts.

    Seriously? And you have the chutzpah to claim that I cannot think critically?

    In fact it does. It shows that the current president of Iran is using the old tried and true blame outside aggressor for his failures. When Iran was undergoing economic boom, there wasn't a need as economic prosperity was legitimizing as a factor. South Korea is an excellent example of how economic prosperity stopped leaders from making bombastic threatening statements to their neighbors. It is not my fault you basically have no understanding in any way, shape, or form of political unity theory.
    You cannot even keep your arguments straight. Before you argued that stopping such antagonistic behavior led to economic prosperity:
    If we study the Koreas, there is a clear distinction when South Korea stops accusing and threatening North Korea: it's economy took off and legitimacy was derived from economy prosperity
    Now you're saying it's economic prosperity before stopping the antagonistic behavior.

    Get your arguments straight, would ya?

    BTW - you're simply repeating yourself here re: Iran blaming someone else to gain legitimacy. I responded to that by asking why you granted Iran such benefit of the doubt. Well?

    Pretty much. He's trying to blame Israel and the US for his failures. The real problem with Iran getting a weapon is that it will scare everyone else into getting weapons. Not that Iran will actually use it.
    That's not the real problem. It is one of the problems.

    Exactly. Now if you read the memo leaked from Harper (which you clearly didn't), Obama stated he had no intention of following through on that statement. Effectively he said it for votes. The same thing Iran's president is doing.
    Obama was lying to us during the campaign. If you say that is the same thing that iran's Prez is doing then you're saying Iran's Prez is lying, too. Hence, Iran's motivation ain't a rhetorical device as you say it is.

    I'm disappointed you take everything at face value without any critical thinking whatsoever.
    I'm disappointed that you play with strawmen.

    You're a great example of why the American Public School System is a massive joke.
    When you demonstrate how I am characteristic of that then you'll be on to something. Until then, you just attacking me personally rather than presenting an argument.

    Go study South Korea. I have yet to lose a single argument about that yet.
    Maybe cuz you're arguing out both sides of your mouth, as I clearly demonstrated above?

    Meanwhile, South Korea's economic prosperity may have coincided with the lessening of tensions with the Norks, but that was not a requisite condition for economic improvement. It's a coincidence.

    Actually no you don't. You take it all at face value.
    If you say so.

    1) You ignore how economic prosperity in Iran's history reduced its statements
    You have presented no such examples. You posted a comment about such an experience but provided neither dates or empirical data. Try again.

    2) You ignore how economic prosperity in other country's history did the same
    You have provided none.

    3) You ignore how failing economic times have pushed nations towards blaming outsiders.
    No, I have simply disagreed with you that failing economic times in contemporary Iran have led it current leadership to ratchet up the annihilate Israel rhetoric. Iran has possessed this annihilation attitude for decades. It's nothing contemporary and has nothing to do with its current economic conditions.

    Your entire argument is Iran will use it because he said it.
    No, my argument is that we cannot simply ignore the rhetoric as you intend us to do.

    You completely refuse to even acknowledge how economic prosperity or the lack of it changes how a government is viewed in terms of legitimacy.
    No such argument was presented and even if it were it's simply not relevant as an explanatory device for Iran's rhetoric.

    Give me a reason why. And I agree with Bush that Iran wants and is trying to get a weapon. Oh wait. That just refutes you. (doesn't everyone?)
    You missed my point. And, no, you didn't just refute anything I said. I simply noted that you grant Iran's autocratic leadership an major benefit of the doubt and based on your comments regarding Bush I concluded that you grant Iran's leadership far more benefit of the doubt than your own President. Citing a single instance of agreement with Bush doesn't foul up my point.

    Ignorance. Explain to me why Iran would give them a weapon only to be on the receiving end of a nuclear missile launched from Israel or the US. As argued before, there are only really two sources, FSU states or Iran.
    I doubt that contemporary American leadership would default to a nuke strike against Iran should a nuke go off in Israel given the current level of angst and anxiety about using conventional weapons in conventional wars. You're presuming an autmatic response of nuking Iran that I just don't see being realistic.

    Logic, facts, history.
    Those are important. Please be sure to present them when you have them.

  4. #74
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    Re: Experts: Iran Will Have Nuke This Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    And Pakistan already has nukes .... oh well.
    Pakistan isn't threatening to wipe Israel off the map.

    The last I checked, Obama hasn't had munitions dropped in Pakistan, as he claimed he may do in pursuit of the bad guys.
    Last I knew Pakistan was helpful.

    But Change has arrived, so who knows?

  5. #75
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    Re: Experts: Iran Will Have Nuke This Year

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    All the more reason to nuke them this month before it happens.
    LOL

    Get started with a "Bang!" ?

  6. #76
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    Re: Experts: Iran Will Have Nuke This Year

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Pakistan isn't threatening to wipe Israel off the map.

    The last I checked, Obama hasn't had munitions dropped in Pakistan, as he claimed he may do in pursuit of the bad guys.
    Last I knew Pakistan was helpful.

    But Change has arrived, so who knows?
    Take a closer look at Pakistan. Its barely a functioning nation. It can't even control its own territory, allowing Al-Qaeda to set up camp and attack Afghanistan at will. It also can't control its border with India as we've seen in the news recently. So a country that can barely maintain control of half its borders is not a threat having nuclear weapons while a country completely in control of its territories is not.

  7. #77
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    Re: Experts: Iran Will Have Nuke This Year

    Pakistan isn't threatening to wipe Israel off the map.
    Neither is Iran.

    With that being said, there is a difference between understanding the rationale behind Iran getting nukes and actually supporting it. While I understand that it is a reasonable tactic for Iran to take, I still oppose it on the same grounds that I oppose any other country developing or possessing nuclear weapons. Some people can't make that distinction, apparently.

  8. #78
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    Re: Experts: Iran Will Have Nuke This Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Neither is Iran.
    So, threats to "annihilate", "wipe off the map", and "destroy" Israel are all just figments of our collective imaginations?

    Help me understand this?

    Or are you going to argue that since the Iranian people have not voted to threaten Israel's existence that, technically, Iran has not threatened Israel?

  9. #79
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    Re: Experts: Iran Will Have Nuke This Year

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    So, threats to "annihilate", "wipe off the map", and "destroy" Israel are all just figments of our collective imaginations?

    Help me understand this?

    Or are you going to argue that since the Iranian people have not voted to threaten Israel's existence that, technically, Iran has not threatened Israel?
    Ahmadinejad is not even a spokesman for Iran's government, let alone its people. He is merely a buffoon. The real power is concentrated among the ayatollahs and military brass.
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  10. #80
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    Re: Experts: Iran Will Have Nuke This Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Ahmadinejad is not even a spokesman for Iran's government, let alone its people. He is merely a buffoon. The real power is concentrated among the ayatollahs and military brass.
    Oh? So how do we know that he's not just the mouthpiece of the real leadership?

    Meanwhile, Iran is the sponsor of Hamas and Hezbollah, two organizations that exist explicitly to destroy Israel.

    But we should believe that Iran has no ill will toward Israel, right? That Iran's President is just blowing hot air, right?


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