Page 24 of 24 FirstFirst ... 14222324
Results 231 to 238 of 238

Thread: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

  1. #231
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Wow a Little full of yourself are we? I have not responded to much of anything for days.

    The US is not in violation of any treaty which can be legally enforced on our soil as has already been shown.
    Moving the goalposts now?

    Now as soon as you become a member of the SCOTUS you will have weight behind your argument. Until then the only legal body that agrees with you has no jurisdiction here.

    So I take your silence in other threads like the one you tried to say LSD is toxic as an admission it is not?
    Nothing else has been posted there of any interest to me. Frankly, I wasn't terribly interested by that thread in the first place. This is a far more interesting topic, and I proved you were wrong about ratification. If the US ratifies a treaty, it is legally bound to uphold it. Otherwise, the US is in violation of its treaty committments, which is a violation of international law.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  2. #232
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post

    Crazy Conservatives
    Watch it. I am a Conservative as well.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  3. #233
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    When it comes to interpreting the law, the SCOTUS is much more qualified to interpret than ludahai any day. So no. His opinion is not valid up against the SCOTUS.
    So, I guess there is no need to debate this or any other topic that has been decided by SCOTUS, unless you are going to claim SCOTUS is NEVER wrong. Are you going to make that claim?

    Until it is accepted by the states and enforceable, the signature means little even according to the convention itself. But I am repeating myself, read the rest of the thread.
    It was not only signed, it was ratified by an 81-0 vote in the Senate.

    Please read the thread so I don't have to retype the whole argument again. If you had you would no my argument had nothing to do with him literally being a foreign national or not.
    If YOU had read the entire thread, you would NOT have repeated the now discredited claim that the convention was only signed.

    So by that reasoning I can go to Mexico and kill people with impunity. Hell I could go anyplace and do whatever I wanted. What the hell am I still doing here? All I have to worry about is getting deported, I can live with that.
    I was not arguing deportation. However, he had the right to contact Mexican consul based on a treaty the US signed AND ratified.


    We can and do. When on US soil you are subject to our laws unless you specifically have diplomatic immunity, period.



    Stupid liberals[/QUOTE]
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  4. #234
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,516

    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Moving the goalposts now?
    What part of "already been said" did you have trouble understanding?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Nothing else has been posted there of any interest to me. Frankly, I wasn't terribly interested by that thread in the first place.
    So in other words you were wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    This is a far more interesting topic, and I proved you were wrong about ratification.
    Yes you did. I was talking about the added conventions, my bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    If the US ratifies a treaty, it is legally bound to uphold it. Otherwise, the US is in violation of its treaty committments, which is a violation of international law.
    If the treaty is not enforceable, as it is in this case there is no violation.

    You keep wanting to ignore that we opted out of the protocols for this exact reason.

  5. #235
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,516

    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    So, I guess there is no need to debate this or any other topic that has been decided by SCOTUS, unless you are going to claim SCOTUS is NEVER wrong. Are you going to make that claim?
    they have not been wrong yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    It was not only signed, it was ratified by an 81-0 vote in the Senate.
    Again means nothing if not enforceable.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    If YOU had read the entire thread, you would NOT have repeated the now discredited claim that the convention was only signed.
    If you had read you would have seen I did not say anything about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I was not arguing deportation. However, he had the right to contact Mexican consul based on a treaty the US signed AND ratified.
    He cannot use that right to overturn a conviction in a US court, period.

  6. #236
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So in other words you were wrong.
    Actually, I only read "poll" topics when I have the time to. Breaking News is always my top priority on here. And no, I do not admit to being wrong there. However, this is Debate Politics, not Debate Drugs.

    Yes you did. I was talking about the added conventions, my bad.
    The US had also ratified the Optional Protocols as well.

    If the treaty is not enforceable, as it is in this case there is no violation.
    Perhaps not a violation of US domestic law, but most certainly a violation of the treaty and of international treaty law.

    You keep wanting to ignore that we opted out of the protocols for this exact reason.
    The U.S. opted out of the Optional Protocal on compulsory ICJ jurisdiction AFTER the case was decided. You can't opt out AFTER the case was decided and then apply that withdrawal to the case already decided. Besides, it is irrelevant for two reasons. 1. The US is a party to the ICJ and this clearly follows under ICJ jurisdiction. and 2. this has been elevated to the status of customary international law that even non-signatories to the convention are generally expected to follow. As the U.S. is a party to the treaty and it itself uses the customary international law argument, it most certainly is subject to its provisions.

    Like it or not, its ignoring of its treaty obligations lessons its moral high ground and places US citizens overseas in unnecessary danger.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  7. #237
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    they have not been wrong yet.
    Plessy v. Fergeson?

    Again means nothing if not enforceable.
    The U.S. is still obligated to follow the treaty. If it does not, it is in violation of the treaty.

    He cannot use that right to overturn a conviction in a US court, period.
    If you read the decision of the ICJ, it wasn't necessarily saying that the convictions had to be overturned.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  8. #238
    Guru
    Binary_Digit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 04:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,539

    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Read what donsutherland wrote, then come back and talk.
    I did. I even thanked him for it, if you notice.
    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1
    I made no suggestion that the U.S. was not in violation of the Vienna Convention. The failure to provide consular access was a violation of Article 36.
    Can't get much more clear than that. Now, why don't you UNDERSTAND what donsutherland wrote and then come back, k?
    Last edited by Binary_Digit; 01-24-09 at 10:44 AM.

Page 24 of 24 FirstFirst ... 14222324

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •