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Thread: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

  1. #191
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    There are very few things in this world that I would be willing to break a law for. Very few. And for those same things are about the only things that I'd get really pissed for. But I would happily flay, pull finger nails, slice open and pour hot coals into the scrotum sac and seal it up anyone that beat, raped and killed children. I would happily take any rap that I got for doing so.

    So when it comes to the UN and Mexico on this subject they can just lick my butthole and stuff a hot poker up their butts for all I care on their rules for this subject. This ahole was an illegal in our country from what I understand. If Mexico didn't want them getting executed for these crimes then they should have kept them on their side of the border so that they wouldn't commit these crimes over here.

    And yes I would be willing to go to war to defend my country if anyone wants to make that big a deal about it.

    And yes I would expect any country that caught these types of people to do the same thing. IMO perferably worse than a simple painless leathal injection.
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  2. #192
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Ludahai, you are far too capable of far sighted, subtle and/or complex thought to be a true conservative. Are you sure you don't want to join us liberals?
    I am just not bogged down by political dogma to prevent me from seeing what is right.
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  3. #193
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It states it pretty clearly in the first or second link.
    Which is contradicted by the State Department website I posted.

    That is your opinion and that is great, but don't expect that to make it true.
    What part of Article 36 of the Vienna COnvention do you not comprehend?

    International law cannot and should not carry more weight than our own laws, period. This is the just of the ruling as laid down by the SCOTUS. If this were the case, we mite as well turn our government over to the UN right now.
    Sure it can when it arises out of a treaty the US has signed and implemented. Sorry to say for those who think America is the world, it is not. It has to share the world with 200 some odd other states. Over the centuries, a body of international law has developed to help those states to live with one another. For the past 200 years, the US has been one of the chief architects in the development of a body of law that does far more to progress U.S. ideas and interest than to hinder them. Informing people and ensuring people have their rights is a fundamental American value. Informing a suspect and ensuring that they have consular access is a MINOR point, one that would not have changed the ultimate verdict in this case. However, denial of this nearly universally recognized right (one that is now a matter of customary law more than treaty law) now potentially puts the US in an untenable position when it wants access to US citizens being legally persecuted in other countries or any other situation where the United States insists other states abide by their international responsiblities.

    Please answer this. How can the US insist other states abide by international law when it itself does not?


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  4. #194
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Which is contradicted by the State Department website I posted.



    What part of Article 36 of the Vienna COnvention do you not comprehend?



    Sure it can when it arises out of a treaty the US has signed and implemented. Sorry to say for those who think America is the world, it is not. It has to share the world with 200 some odd other states. Over the centuries, a body of international law has developed to help those states to live with one another. For the past 200 years, the US has been one of the chief architects in the development of a body of law that does far more to progress U.S. ideas and interest than to hinder them. Informing people and ensuring people have their rights is a fundamental American value. Informing a suspect and ensuring that they have consular access is a MINOR point, one that would not have changed the ultimate verdict in this case. However, denial of this nearly universally recognized right (one that is now a matter of customary law more than treaty law) now potentially puts the US in an untenable position when it wants access to US citizens being legally persecuted in other countries or any other situation where the United States insists other states abide by their international responsiblities.

    Please answer this. How can the US insist other states abide by international law when it itself does not?


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  5. #195
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It states it pretty clearly in the first or second link.
    Page 37 of the US Department of State listing treaties in force lists the Consular Convention as one such treaty in force.

    It was approved by the Senate by a 81-0 vote on May 5, 1969.

    Face it, you are WRONG. It was properly ratified by the US Senate and as such, the US is bound to abide by it.
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  6. #196
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    What do you think about Hamas firing rockets into Israel?
    You know exactly what I think about Hamas firing rockets into Israel. I clear breach of international law and if you have read the relevant threads, you would know that I have been one of the most forceful defenders of Israel's inherent sovereign rights affirmed by Article 51 of the UN Charter to defend itself.
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You know exactly what I think about Hamas firing rockets into Israel. I clear breach of international law and if you have read the relevant threads, you would know that I have been one of the most forceful defenders of Israel's inherent sovereign rights affirmed by Article 51 of the UN Charter to defend itself.
    The last portion of Art VI:
    "...and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."

    Is this clear enough for you?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  8. #198
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The last portion of Art VI:
    "...and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."

    Is this clear enough for you?
    Exactly which Texas state law is contrary to the VC's provision that sending states must be notified when a receiving state arrests one of their citizens? Unless you can show a Texas state law that prohibits notifying the sending state, you have failed.

    Let's review:

    1.) The VC has two relevant provisions:

    a. Receiving states must notify sending states when a citizen of the sending state is arrested. Receiving states must notify the suspect of his rights to Consular relations with his/her home state without delay.

    b. (optional) The ICJ shall have jurisdiction on matters where a disagreement arises.

    2.) The U.S. ratified the VC in 1969.

    3.) The U.S. withdrew from the optional provision b in 2005. It did not withdraw from the VC as a whole.

    4.) The U.S. plainly and obviously did not notify this suspect of his Consular rights under the VC. Since the U.S. ratified the VC in 1969, and only withdrew from ONE of the optional provisions, the U.S. is in clear violation of a treaty that it ratified.

    5.) The ICJ ruled that the U.S. violated its obligations under the VC. But since the U.S. withdrew from the optional protocol, this ruling is non-binding. That does not change the fact that the U.S. is in violation of the VC. It only changes what can be done about it, which, from the ICJ's point of view, is nothing.

    It is ridiculous on its face to claim that the U.S. is not in violation of the VC simply because the ICJ's ruling is non-binding. That's like stealing something, and then claiming you never stole anything because you simply weren't caught or there can be no punishment. Fallacious and dishonest to the core!

    It's also a red-herring and a strawman to claim that recognizing the U.S.'s failure to abide by its treaty obligations consitutes any sort of dismissal of the crimes that were committed. Fallacious and dishonest again!

    And to let emotions toward this piece of **** scumbag cloud and distort the plain and obvious fact that a treaty was broken is a significant and alarming disregard for the law of the land. You don't get to make up the law as you go, based on how you feel about a person. That is also fallacious and dishonest!

    I can't believe the shameless inability and/or flat out refusal to keep separate issues separate in this thread. It blows my mind.

  9. #199
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    I'm not the attorney here, it's not my job to find the state law. I'm merely pointing out that Art VI is not what many around here want it to say. Treaties and the Supreme law of the Land are not cut and dry as some may think. Nothing international nullifies the US Constitution and State laws.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #200
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The last portion of Art VI:
    "...and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."

    Is this clear enough for you?
    What about notifying a person of his right to have access to Mexican consuls contravenes the laws of the State of TExas or any other state.

    This does not change the fact that the US violated its treaty obligations and is in violation of international law.
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