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Thread: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    He got due process.
    If what lud said is correct, no he did not. He got domestic due process, not due process that the US agreed upon with international treaties.

    Check out what due process is in Turkey or Venezuela.
    red-herring.
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    We don't owe him more than that. We do not adhere to the optional convention. Enjoy your red herring?
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    We don't owe him more than that. We do not adhere to the optional convention.
    assuming Lud is wrong then yes you are right. Otherwise, we are risking the lives and well being of our citizens overseas.

    Enjoy your red herring?
    Needs salt.
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You have NOT shown that the US has not ratified the Vienna Convention.
    Ummm yes I have. Go back and actually look at the links I posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The Optional Protocol only referred to the Vienna COnvention. The US is a party to the Statute of the ICJ and on matters of international law, the ICJ is the supreme authority. If the US does not abide by its decisions, it is in violation of international law.
    No it is not. The only people who think we are in violation is a court that has no jurisdiction over the US at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And this decision is a violation of US obligations both based on treaties it adheres to as well as to customary international law which the United States accepts and uses.
    It was not ratified or voted on by the states. End of story.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The US has no basis to complain about others not respecting international law because the US is now on record as ignoring it.
    This is true. It does not change the fact we are not bound by it according to the convention itself, as I have shown in another link you obviously did not read.

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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Don't bother debating Ludahai, he's high on koolaid.
    I am beginning to wonder.

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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    We don't owe him more than that. We do not adhere to the optional convention. Enjoy your red herring?
    The necessity to notify the Mexican consul and to grant him those rights has nothing to do with the Optional Protocol.
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Ummm yes I have. Go back and actually look at the links I posted.
    The only thing I have seen from links you have posted is that Congress did not pass enabling legislation. I didn't see anything regarding the Senate and ratification.

    No it is not. The only people who think we are in violation is a court that has no jurisdiction over the US at all.
    The US is in clear violation of its treaty obligations. Nothing you say is going to change that.

    It was not ratified or voted on by the states. End of story.
    The links I have see you post referred to laws by Congress, NOT ratification by the Senate. Regardless, you think this is an excuse for the US to not follow international law? This puts the US in the untenable position of not being able to insist on other states to follow thier international obligations and opens up the possibility that other states will refuse to allow the US access to US citizens in their custody. This is GRADE A STUPID!

    This is true. It does not change the fact we are not bound by it according to the convention itself, as I have shown in another link you obviously did not read.
    Not bound to what? We are bound by the Vienna Convention as well as to any decision of the ICJ on which it makes a ruling within its jurisdiction as the US is a party to the ICJ statue.
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I am beginning to wonder.
    What, to be on kool aid for expecting the US to live up to its own international obligations and agreements?

    I could easily say you are on kool aid for excusing a blantant ignoring of its obligations under the Vienna Convention.
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The only thing I have seen from links you have posted is that Congress did not pass enabling legislation. I didn't see anything regarding the Senate and ratification.
    It states it pretty clearly in the first or second link.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The US is in clear violation of its treaty obligations. Nothing you say is going to change that.
    That is your opinion and that is great, but don't expect that to make it true.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The links I have see you post referred to laws by Congress, NOT ratification by the Senate. Regardless, you think this is an excuse for the US to not follow international law? This puts the US in the untenable position of not being able to insist on other states to follow thier international obligations and opens up the possibility that other states will refuse to allow the US access to US citizens in their custody. This is GRADE A STUPID!
    International law cannot and should not carry more weight than our own laws, period. This is the just of the ruling as laid down by the SCOTUS. If this were the case, we mite as well turn our government over to the UN right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Not bound to what? We are bound by the Vienna Convention as well as to any decision of the ICJ on which it makes a ruling within its jurisdiction as the US is a party to the ICJ statue.

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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    What, to be on kool aid for expecting the US to live up to its own international obligations and agreements?

    I could easily say you are on kool aid for excusing a blantant ignoring of its obligations under the Vienna Convention.
    Ludahai, you are far too capable of far sighted, subtle and/or complex thought to be a true conservative. Are you sure you don't want to join us liberals?

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