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Thread: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

  1. #171
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    OK, this is my final response to those who would have treated with kid gloves the scumbag who raped, tortured, and murdered 2 little girls.

    I have seen your arguments. I believe they are wrong, but even if they are right, I don't give a damn. You want to say we took away his rights? OK, fine with me. We took the scumbag to the death house, we stuck a needle in his arm, and we proceeded to kill him. I completely support this killing. Call me a murderer, call me a criminal, call me a ham and cheese sandwich on rye. Again, I don't give a damn. Whatever you call me I will wear with pride, as a badge of honor.

    In Texas, if you rape, torture, and murder little girls, you are going to die, the UN is not going to save you, a consulate is not going to save you, and bleeding hearts who believe we have taken your rights away are not going to save you. We are going to execute the living crap out of you. Period. End of discussion. Don't like my answer? That's just too damn bad.

    And I don't give 2 craps about who I just offended in posting this.
    FAIL.

    No one is arguing that murderers should be set free. We are arguing about whether due process was given. If it wasn't it doesn't mean the criminal goes free.

    Stop whining about non-issues.
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  2. #172
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    FAIL.

    No one is arguing that murderers should be set free. We are arguing about whether due process was given. If it wasn't it doesn't mean the criminal goes free.

    Stop whining about non-issues.
    1) Response to part in bold - No reason for the ad-hom personal attack. Now let's continue the discussion.

    2) He got just as much due process as any American citizen would get, and that works for me.

    3) Back to the whining issue, since you accused me of doing that. I am not whining at all. I am celebrating. There is a DIFFERENCE. Would you like to join me in a toast?

    I hereby raise my glass, and give a toast to the toasted. May he fry in hell.
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    No. The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations contains two Optional Protocols. The whole Convention is not optional.

    On 24 April 1963, the Conference adopted and opened for signature the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, the Optional Protocol concerning Acquisition of Nationality and the Optional Protocol concerning the Compulsory Settlement of Disputes. The Convention and both Optional Protocols came into force on 19 March 1967.

    Vienna Convention on Consular Relations - Main Page

    Here is the Optional Protocol that the U.S. withdrew from:

    All that means is that the ICJ doesn't have jurisdiction over the U.S. It does not mean that the ICJ's ruling is incorrect, nor does it mean we didn't fail to uphold our obligation under the (non-optional) Vienna Convention itself. Because we didn't withdraw from the entire treaty.
    This sounds like ,"you didn`t read me my rights after I raped and killed those two children ,therefore I am inocent". If that is the finer point in this matter ,the justice system just expended a damned fine use of some lethal drugs. See you in hell dude.

  4. #174
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    1) Response to part in bold - No reason for the ad-hom personal attack. Now let's continue the discussion.
    Sorry. :red:

    2) He got just as much due process as any American citizen would get, and that works for me.
    Exactly. He's not an American citizen but a citizen of another country whom we have a treaty with. Assuming the treaties are valid (this is currently being discussed) then apparently he wasn't afforded due process as we had agreed upon with other countries when dealing with their citizens.
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
    This sounds like ,"you didn`t read me my rights after I raped and killed those two children ,therefore I am inocent".
    That's not the issue. The innocent or guilt of the men isn't in question. Its the intentional or unintentional violation of international treaties regarding due process for foreigners that's in question.
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    That's not the issue. The innocent or guilt of the men isn't in question. Its the intentional or unintentional violation of international treaties regarding due process for foreigners that's in question.
    He got due process. Check out what due process is in Turkey or Venezuela.
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    OK, this is my final response to those who would have treated with kid gloves the scumbag who raped, tortured, and murdered 2 little girls.

    I have seen your arguments. I believe they are wrong, but even if they are right, I don't give a damn. You want to say we took away his rights? OK, fine with me. We took the scumbag to the death house, we stuck a needle in his arm, and we proceeded to kill him. I completely support this killing. Call me a murderer, call me a criminal, call me a ham and cheese sandwich on rye. Again, I don't give a damn. Whatever you call me I will wear with pride, as a badge of honor.

    In Texas, if you rape, torture, and murder little girls, you are going to die, the UN is not going to save you, a consulate is not going to save you, and bleeding hearts who believe we have taken your rights away are not going to save you. We are going to execute the living crap out of you. Period. End of discussion. Don't like my answer? That's just too damn bad.

    And I don't give 2 craps about who I just offended in posting this.
    And once again, we are not talking the consulate saving anyone. Texas could have abided by the rules and still executed the scumbag. The implication that those of us who are arguing that the US should have adhered to its international responsibilities is defending the scumbag is wrong and offensive.
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Ludahai, you have got this all wrong still. We opted out because it was never ratified, so it does count.

    For the most part the US recognizes the VC but we never ratified it, so we do not have to recognize it at all. I have shown this before in this thread, but you chose to ignore.
    You have NOT shown that the US has not ratified the Vienna Convention.

    The Supreme court of the United States, not the UN court (which we give no authority to as of 2005) decides what happens in this country. And they made the choice known:
    The Optional Protocol only referred to the Vienna COnvention. The US is a party to the Statute of the ICJ and on matters of international law, the ICJ is the supreme authority. If the US does not abide by its decisions, it is in violation of international law.

    " In June 2006, the United States Supreme Court ruled that foreign nationals who were not notified of their right to consular notification and access after an arrest may not use the treaty violation to suppress evidence obtained in police interrogation or belatedly raise legal challenges after trial (Sanchez-Llamas v. Oregon)."

    So the US was justified and legal in it's actions in the treatment of the murderers.
    And this decision is a violation of US obligations both based on treaties it adheres to as well as to customary international law which the United States accepts and uses.

    The US has no basis to complain about others not respecting international law because the US is now on record as ignoring it.
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  9. #179
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Don't bother debating Ludahai, he's high on koolaid.
    Except that the US is in violation of its treaty obliations and customary international law and there is nothing you can do to deny that.
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  10. #180
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
    This sounds like ,"you didn`t read me my rights after I raped and killed those two children ,therefore I am inocent". If that is the finer point in this matter ,the justice system just expended a damned fine use of some lethal drugs. See you in hell dude.
    We are not saying that. Ever heard of the Miranda Warning? What is wrong with following international law and giving him the notice of his right to contact consul?

    If you actually read the original 2004 ICJ decision, it does not call for his release, it calls for rectification of the mistake and make sure all of his legal rights are protected. Then, following the proper prodedures, Texas can fry the guy.

    That's all for now. Without further ado, it is 80 degrees and sunny outside. Time to go to Baisha Beach to swim and watch my kids play in the white sand.
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