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Thread: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

  1. #131
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Would you be in favor of Americans being executed in other countries for breaking their laws? Just a question. I know the yelling and screaming when some Australian kid in Singapore got caught with weed in her bag. I can't really imagine the American outrage if something like this was done to our citizens.
    I'm glad they gave the bandito the needle. NOW send him back to Meh-he-co. Adios amigo!

    But, now that you mention it, I remember a story about a young American man ( I THINK he was American) being sentenced to be "caned," across the back, for some petty crime, in some foreign country, and the pundits went ape-sh** over it.

    But this dude needed to fry.

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  2. #132
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Thank you for acknowledging that it is a valid treaty.

    Did the authorities in Texas inform him of his right to speak with the Mexican consuls? That is part of the treaty.

    The sad thing is, Texas could have followed the rules, allow him to have consular access, have the trial, convict and execute the scumbag and there would be no international issues and no dangerous precedent that could come to haunt Americans living and/or travelling overseas.
    According to the police, he did not ask. He claims he asked. However, court records support the police version. Once more, he did not even raise the issue until 4 years after he was sentenced. He was just trying to game the system to save his own worthless life. He had been in the US since he was 3 years old, spoke English fluently, and had shown no desire in his entire life to move back to Mexico and be a Mexican citizen. He is also not going to be raping and murdering any more innocent kids either, is he?

    In Texas, if you rape and murder kids, you die. If Mexico doesn't like it, they can kiss my ass.
    Last edited by danarhea; 01-20-09 at 03:26 AM.
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  3. #133
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Listen, if these guys did what they did, then they should be punished to the full extent of the law. I have no issue with that at all.

    However being a non citizen, then they should have had access to consulate period. It is a very dangerous precedent the US is setting for it self and its citizens abroad.... very dangerous. In principle as it stands now, I have more protection as a Danish citizen in Spain than my American neighbour because of this arrogant act by Texas. That I fully expect Spain to comply with international agreements, unlike the US/Texas but Spain (and others) have precedent to ignore international agreements just because it is an American.

    Not to mention it is a totally xenophobic and arrogant attitude the state of Texas have. Texas was wrong and it is time to admit it. The UN is totally correct in most of its assessment, but that does not mean that the convictions would have been any different or even thrown out just because of this cock up by the State of Texas or even that these guys would have been spared.

    It means that the international agreements that the US on behalf of Texas has signed up to must be lived up too and any non compliance either rectified or apologized for and not be repeated. The problem is here, that the arrogance of Texas and the Bush administration has not provided any thing near this. Instead their clear xenophobic racist attitudes towards Hispanics has shown their ugly head and they have used classic avoidance tactics by screaming "child molesters and killers" in every second line of any text or document and hence making any civilized discussion on the subject impossible.. and I expect it also in the reply to my comments, because these boards are just slightly more civilized than the state of Texas.

    Again, before people rip of my head, I am talking about the principle of ignoring international agreements and in this case access to consular representatives. There should be no difference if you are Mexican, Danish, Russian or Chinese, but this case has clearly shown that there was difference and that is shameful. Not long ago, there was a Danish boat captain that was busted with several tons of cocaine on his ship.. even he got access to the Danish consulate and later got convicted. Why did these Mexicans not get access?`.. because they were Mexican or because the State of Texas screwed up big time? I hope it is the later, else... shameful.

    But as I have stated, if they did it then they should have been punished to the fullest extent of the law period.
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  4. #134
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    They make their own rules in Texas. That goes with the saying "don't mess with Texas". Bush is from Texas.

  5. #135
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    The treaty was ratified by the United States, but the process of putting a treaty in effect does not stop there. A participating nation must enact legislation in their own country that instructs the nation to abide by the treaty.

    The United States passed no legislation related to Consular Privilege, specifically the Vienna Optional Protocols, so the treaty is not valid on our soil.
    According to international treaty law, is a state signs and ratifies a treaty or acceeds to an international convention, it is bound by the provisions of that document.

    Furthermore, even if the state HASN'T acceeded to that document, if it becomes considered customary international law and the state in question did not show through its words and/or deeds that it did NOT accept this development, it is still bound by this as international law in accordance with the ICJ Statute and the history of customary international law.
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  6. #136
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
    If evidence could be shown in a court of law they committed a crime that merits execution the answer is YES.
    However, the US government would expect that it have consular access to an American so charged and tried.
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  7. #137
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I'm glad they gave the bandito the needle. NOW send him back to Meh-he-co. Adios amigo!

    But, now that you mention it, I remember a story about a young American man ( I THINK he was American) being sentenced to be "caned," across the back, for some petty crime, in some foreign country, and the pundits went ape-sh** over it.

    But this dude needed to fry.
    Michael Fay in Singapore. And I believe he was given consular access as required by international law.
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  8. #138
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    According to the police, he did not ask. He claims he asked. However, court records support the police version. Once more, he did not even raise the issue until 4 years after he was sentenced. He was just trying to game the system to save his own worthless life. He had been in the US since he was 3 years old, spoke English fluently, and had shown no desire in his entire life to move back to Mexico and be a Mexican citizen. He is also not going to be raping and murdering any more innocent kids either, is he?

    In Texas, if you rape and murder kids, you die. If Mexico doesn't like it, they can kiss my ass.
    The treaty required him to be informed of his rights and to be asked if he would like consular access. I have seen no evidence this was done. THis is not dissimilar to the Miranda Warning that is now standard in the United States. All suspects who are arrested are required to be informed of their rights. Why should this be any different.

    I am not arguing that this guy should fry. However, the US should have followed its obligations under international law. It can not now take the high road and expect others to follow international law when it was violated by the US in this case.
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  9. #139
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The problem is here, that the arrogance of Texas and the Bush administration has not provided any thing near this.
    I was all with you except for this statement. The Bush adminstration actually tried to get the law to be followed. The State of Texas and SCOTUS refused to live up to the international committments made by the US.
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    Re: US breached order by executing Mexican: UN court

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Would you be in favor of Americans being executed in other countries for breaking their laws? Just a question. I know the yelling and screaming when some Australian kid in Singapore got caught with weed in her bag. I can't really imagine the American outrage if something like this was done to our citizens.
    Anyone who commits first degree murder no matter where, or where from should have swift capital punishment.

    Like I've stated before...the death penalty should be put in place where it is a "given" that if you commit first degree murder you are also comitting suicide!

    Pure Logic.

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