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Thread: Sudan fears US military intervention over Darfur

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    Sudan fears US military intervention over Darfur

    Sudan fears US military intervention over Darfur | World news | guardian.co.uk I get the feeling US foriegn policy may start to grow on me over these next few years . Lets hope Clinton is better at humanitarian intervention then her husband was

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    Re: Sudan fears US military intervention over Darfur

    I don't think they should be. Our military isn't really in a position right now to do this. With UN help it could be possible.
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    Re: Sudan fears US military intervention over Darfur

    Quote Originally Posted by RightOfCenter View Post
    I don't think they should be. Our military isn't really in a position right now to do this. With UN help it could be possible.
    I accept that regime change is unfeisable at present but it would be possible to send a small amount of people to defend refugee camps and aid workers. I think the best tactic right now would be to bolster the existing UN operation which is suffering from a lack of manpower, helicopters, equipment etc. If i remember rightly theres only a couple of hundred or so people on the ground at the moment*

    Edit: by "a couple of hundred" I actually meant 19,555 military personel and 3,772 police African Union - United Nations Hybrid Operation in Darfur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 01-16-09 at 02:03 PM.

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    Re: Sudan fears US military intervention over Darfur

    Why is Dafur a worthy interventionist cause again?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Sudan fears US military intervention over Darfur

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Why is Dafur a worthy interventionist cause again?
    Well as far as im concerned the sheer volume of innocent people are being killed is in itself a good enough reason to get involved but ultimatly I think its in everyones interest that the situation is adressed due to.

    >The risk of the conflict spreading to other states [as it already has in Chad]
    >The risk of instability created by a heavy flow of refugees [as we are already seeing with Zimbabweans in South Africa]
    >The correalation between stability and food production. Case in point: Zimbabwe
    > The fact that failed states become a haven for terroists, piracy etc.
    > Also bear in mind Bin Larden and the National Islamic front have a long history of colusion.
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 01-16-09 at 02:21 PM.

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    Re: Sudan fears US military intervention over Darfur

    I wonder if Red Dave was supportive of removing Hussein?

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    Re: Sudan fears US military intervention over Darfur

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    I wonder if Red Dave was supportive of removing Hussein?
    I had a feeling that was coming. I,ve mixed feelings to be honest. As ive said before its not the removal of Saddam Hussein itself that I object to. I think the removal of Saddam Hussein as an isolated event was a good thing, though i wish it could have happend differently. Indeed it was crazed leftists like myself that opossed arming him in the first place. The thing about the Iraq war I take issue with is the wider context*.

    I think the main issue i take with the whole thing is the prioritys and the methods. If humanitarian goals where the basis of the intervention then we would have intervened somewhere were the need was more urgent. If our prioritys were based on stopping terroism then we would have concentrated our efforts on Afganistan, Somailia and the like. I think my objections to the methods are pretty much self evident.

    *i.e removing a former ally on the basis of non-existent ties to Bin Larden, and of a genocide we helped him with 20 years ago while ignoring a comtemporty genocide in Sudan.

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    Re: Sudan fears US military intervention over Darfur

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Well as far as im concerned the sheer volume of innocent people are being killed is in itself a good enough reason to get involved but ultimatly I think its in everyones interest that the situation is adressed due to.

    >The risk of the conflict spreading to other states [as it already has in Chad]
    >The risk of instability created by a heavy flow of refugees [as we are already seeing with Zimbabweans in South Africa]
    >The correalation between stability and food production. Case in point: Zimbabwe
    > The fact that failed states become a haven for terroists, piracy etc.
    > Also bear in mind Bin Larden and the National Islamic front have a long history of colusion.


    Sounds like good reasons to invade Iraq my friend.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Sudan fears US military intervention over Darfur

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Sounds like good reasons to invade Iraq my friend.
    I did sence a trap there. See above post

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    Re: Sudan fears US military intervention over Darfur

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    The thing about the Iraq war I take issue with is the wider context*.

    *i.e removing a former ally on the basis of non-existent ties to Bin Larden, and of a genocide we helped him with 20 years ago while ignoring a comtemporty genocide in Sudan
    Well, none of the admin's rationale relied on citing a single connection between Hussein and bin laden but rather citing Iraq's broader support and sponsorship of terrorism, inlcuding AQ. That Iraq provided safe haven and had some relationship with AQ is indisputable. This was recognized as far back as Clinton and the Senate Select Intelligence Cmte concluded that such intelligence conclusions were substantiated by the intelligence data they review after the fact.

    What "genocide" did the US help Hussein commit twenty years ago?

    Lastly, the US has not ignored the genocide happening in Darfur. Just because the US has not taken any action that you think she should doesn't mean that the event is being ignored.

    I think the main issue i take with the whole thing is the prioritys and the methods. If humanitarian goals where the basis of the intervention then we would have intervened somewhere were the need was more urgent. If our prioritys were based on stopping terroism then we would have concentrated our efforts on Afganistan, Somailia and the like. I think my objections to the methods are pretty much self evident.
    The basis was partly humanitarian as Bush cited Hussein's gross human rights violations. The basis was partly citing Iraq's support and relationship with terrorists. These were in addition to the violation of the ceasefire and UN resolutions and wmd's and wmd programs. Together, these factors formed the basis of the administration's rationale for war.

    I'd argue that the ceasefire violation by itself justified war. But I'd also argue that the other factors, individually, would not have justified war. However, the combo of the four factors, imo, presented a compelling and just argument for war.

    It seems to me, though, that you should actually have supported the war on the human rights factor basis but that you're withholding that because you believe that there were other alternative targets that should have been addressed first. Am I reading you right?

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