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Thread: Evidence in Terror Cases Said to Be in Chaos

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    Evidence in Terror Cases Said to Be in Chaos

    On the heels of revelations that torture was used in Guantanamo, comes a case where evidence against a suspect does not exist. At best, this is sloppy work, and at worst, the evidence may very well have been fabricated.

    A military prosecutor, who quit his position because of a crisis of conscience, has now talked. The case? A teenager who was picked up and sent to Gitmo, after a bomb wounded 2 US soldiers. the problem? Actually, there are 2 problems:

    1) The evidence, which does not exist, but somehow magically disappeared.

    2) His signed confession. The accused is functionally illiterate in his own language, is not Iranian so does not speak Farsi, and the confession itself was in Farsi. His signature on the written confession was his thumbprint, obtained after Afghan authorities told him that they would kill his wife and children if he did not affix his thumbprint to the document.

    For generations, the USA was seen as a nation that others looked up to because we practiced the Democracy and freedom we preached. But in one fell swoop, we have become like those we condemn, willing to do whatever it takes, including trying people in kangaroo courts.

    We cannot win the war against the Taliban if we decide to be like them. I am glad that the first business of the Obama administration is going to be to close down Gitmo, because it is a symbol - A symbol that that represents the worst kind of human behavior.

    The prosecutor has now filed a brief in Federal court, attesting that detainees cannot receive fair trials. The brief itself is in support of the petition seeking the release of the detainee he was originally assigned to prosecute.

    Article is here.
    Last edited by danarhea; 01-15-09 at 01:11 AM.
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    Re: Evidence in Terror Cases Said to Be in Chaos

    Human rights groups have been calling out this kind of seedy business since the beginning of the war on terror, but until now there weren't many obvious supporters from the U.S. side that came forth with evidence. A lot of the prior testimonies came from captured individuals, or from their families, and the deniers made quick work of them. Now even those employed by the Bush Administration are coming forward because it's safe to do so and the air of paranoia surrounding "traitors" is not as strong.

    I hate to say it, but I'm not surprised that this is happening. I just hope justice is served.

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    Re: Evidence in Terror Cases Said to Be in Chaos

    Not exactly breaking news.. we in the real world, have known about the abuse and ludicrous legal proceedings at gitmo since it was opened, but we have always been dismissed as anti-American leftist terrorist loving closet Muslim homosexual Christian hating anti Semitic liberal.

    I also bet that the usual suspects in the US, including parts of the media, will ignore or twist the facts. After all most American's seem to believe that the people at Gitmo were "caught in combat" in Afghanistan and are all AL Q. Most American's seem also to have no idea about the hundreds who have been released with no charge after years of confinement and most likely torture... that is the famous American justice and moral attitude to the rule of law?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Evidence in Terror Cases Said to Be in Chaos

    Pete, while it's good to see evidence surfacing, we can't assume that torture has been widespread and policy-related. We'll have to wait to see how things unfold...

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    Re: Evidence in Terror Cases Said to Be in Chaos

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Pete, while it's good to see evidence surfacing, we can't assume that torture has been widespread and policy-related. We'll have to wait to see how things unfold...
    I disagree fully.

    We have evidence that Rumsfeldt issued orders for "enhanced interrogation techniques", which have been defined to include what is internationally accepted as torture. The only country that does not agree is of course the country committing the abuse.

    We also have wide spread evidence from former detainees, witnesses and even pictures of torture and abuse, stretching from Afghanistan to Iraq over to Gitmo. And lets not forget the known deaths in the various areas.

    Once can be a random act, twice makes it odd, tree times makes it a standard practice. I refuse to believe that the discipline in the US military is so bad that random people are torturing people.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Evidence in Terror Cases Said to Be in Chaos

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    On the heels of revelations that torture was used in Guantanamo, comes a case where evidence against a suspect does not exist. At best, this is sloppy work, and at worst, the evidence may very well have been fabricated.
    You mean on the heels of someone's opinion that torture was used, not revelations. You're welcome.

    For generations, the USA was seen as a nation that others looked up to because we practiced the Democracy and freedom we preached. But in one fell swoop, we have become like those we condemn, willing to do whatever it takes, including trying people in kangaroo courts.
    Disgusting liberal moral equivalency. Hmmm, coercive treatment of some detainees is now the supposed equivalent of beheading journalists and soldiers, indiscriminately killing civilians, using airliners to attack skyscrapers, etc.

    Seriously, who deals in such morally bankrupt equivalencies?

    We cannot win the war against the Taliban if we decide to be like them.
    But we are not being like them.

    Seriously, why do you think that beheading soldiers and civilians is remotely similar to proper detention and the use of legally permissable ineterrogation techniques?

    I am glad that the first business of the Obama administration is going to be to close down Gitmo, because it is a symbol - A symbol that that represents the worst kind of human behavior.
    My God! You mean Gitmo is the equivalent of Nazi death camps, the Soviet's Gulag, and Pol Pot's killing fields? Well, you certainly have a friend in Democrat Senator Dick Durbin.

    Seriously, though...why do you minimize what is the furthest extent of evil in order to smear the United States as terrorist savages?

    Does no one else have a problem with such absurd moral equivalencies?

    I would have to assume that this poster doesn't see any difference between Bush and Clinton and Hitler, Stalin, Mao and others that murdered millions and millions of people, right? I mean, he'd have to believe that in order to present his comments above.

    Truly sickening some people are.

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    Re: Evidence in Terror Cases Said to Be in Chaos

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    We have evidence that Rumsfeldt issued orders for "enhanced interrogation techniques", which have been defined to include what is internationally accepted as torture. The only country that does not agree is of course the country committing the abuse.
    Taking just a little rhetorical license aren't you?

    What evidence do you have that the techniques utilized by the US have become internationally accepted as torture? Just because some international types think it's torture or have condemned the US for allegedly torturing people doesn't amount to anything more than opinions. No formal international agreement indicates such a common acceptance as you claim to exist.

    Well?

    We also have wide spread evidence from former detainees, witnesses and even pictures of torture and abuse, stretching from Afghanistan to Iraq over to Gitmo. And lets not forget the known deaths in the various areas.
    Torture seems these days to be in the eyes of the beholder rather than a conclusion of law.

    Once can be a random act, twice makes it odd, tree times makes it a standard practice. I refuse to believe that the discipline in the US military is so bad that random people are torturing people.
    I see, you just simply presume it to be policy. Doing otherwise would wreck your preferred narrativ eof the US as a nation no better than the terrorists themselves.

    That's really impressive stuff.

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    Re: Evidence in Terror Cases Said to Be in Chaos

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    You mean on the heels of someone's opinion that torture was used, not revelations. You're welcome.



    Disgusting liberal moral equivalency. Hmmm, coercive treatment of some detainees is now the supposed equivalent of beheading journalists and soldiers, indiscriminately killing civilians, using airliners to attack skyscrapers, etc.

    Seriously, who deals in such morally bankrupt equivalencies?



    But we are not being like them.

    Seriously, why do you think that beheading soldiers and civilians is remotely similar to proper detention and the use of legally permissable ineterrogation techniques?



    My God! You mean Gitmo is the equivalent of Nazi death camps, the Soviet's Gulag, and Pol Pot's killing fields? Well, you certainly have a friend in Democrat Senator Dick Durbin.

    Seriously, though...why do you minimize what is the furthest extent of evil in order to smear the United States as terrorist savages?

    Does no one else have a problem with such absurd moral equivalencies?

    I would have to assume that this poster doesn't see any difference between Bush and Clinton and Hitler, Stalin, Mao and others that murdered millions and millions of people, right? I mean, he'd have to believe that in order to present his comments above.

    Truly sickening some people are.
    Liberal moral equivalency? Hardly. We are talking about a military prosecutor here. Also, the other prosecutor who blew the whistle on torture worked for Regan's White House as an assistant counsel. But don't let that get in the way of you screaming "It's all the fault of those evulllll Leeeebrrrruuuullllssss".

    Why don't you give it a rest? Nobody's buying that shtick any more.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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