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Thread: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    You do know there were more military deaths under Clinton than have under Bush right?


    Not to point out anything bad Clinton did, just that yes, troops sometimes die doing stupid ****......
    Please support that these deaths were from stupid stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    I think some of you guys are selling short the stress of deployment, particularly combat deployment. Ideally, yes, changing DADT shouldn't change anything. And realistically, even in a combat deployment, I don't think there would be an epidemic of gay murders or beatdowns that would affect our ability to fight. But I do think the number of cases would be higher, than if it were changed at a less tumultuos time. Its about how much of a price, would we be willing to pay for this social adjustment to our military. Either way, if we did it now or later, the change would ultimatley be for the better. It may just be a little bit safer, if its not done with our forces being on constant deployment to major combat areas. Those deployments are stressful, and I think alot of people outside the military don't quite grasp the gravity of that, and they certainley haven't witnessed the stupid things people have done(both silly and tragic) when deployed.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    I think some of you guys are selling short the stress of deployment, particularly combat deployment. Ideally, yes, changing DADT shouldn't change anything. And realistically, even in a combat deployment, I don't think there would be an epidemic of gay murders or beatdowns that would affect our ability to fight. But I do think the number of cases would be higher, than if it were changed at a less tumultuos time. Its about how much of a price, would we be willing to pay for this social adjustment to our military. Either way, if we did it now or later, the change would ultimatley be for the better. It may just be a little bit safer, if its not done with our forces being on constant deployment to major combat areas. Those deployments are stressful, and I think alot of people outside the military don't quite grasp the gravity of that, and they certainley haven't witnessed the stupid things people have done(both silly and tragic) when deployed.
    It's true, I haven't walked in those people's shoes who have been deployed.

    How long will the war on terror last though? 50 years? It's supposed to be a long one.

    There may be some growing pains for soldiers who can't handle the truth. I still wouldn't call this a social change. Gays are already serving as second class citizens.

    How come no one is ever concerned about a closeted gay killing a homophobe?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You're right. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that it's equally wrong to discriminate based on sexual preference.
    Well call me silly but I would not want to shower with a gay men etc.

    If they had facility's set up to separate us like the females during training, I would not have an issue with it.

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Well, by the same virtue that a person can't change the color of their skin, a person can't change who they are attracted to.
    This is true, but you don't have to act on it. In the end you still have a choice. With race you have no choice.

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    It's true, I haven't walked in those people's shoes who have been deployed.

    How long will the war on terror last though? 50 years? It's supposed to be a long one.

    There may be some growing pains for soldiers who can't handle the truth. I still wouldn't call this a social change. Gays are already serving as second class citizens.

    How come no one is ever concerned about a closeted gay killing a homophobe?
    I personally think, that Iraq may be done with(for the most part) within 2 years. Afghanistan might take a little longer, as there is alot less infrastructure to begin with there, as there was in Iraq. I could actually believe a scenario where we end up successful in Iraq and failing in Afghanistan, but thats a different story. I think in the next 4-5 years, most of our troops will be back to the pre-war "schedule", as I think there will need to be a small window where our military sits back and retools itself for modern threats. We are still very much a Cold War machine right now. I think during that "re-tooling" period, which I see coming soon, it would be the most opportune time to change DADT. However, I do agree that there is also the possibility that our forces could be kept to the grinder for a period of time to come. In that case I would say if we aren't out of major combat by then, then the longest we should wait is maybe 4 years. And the only reason I say wait 4 years, instead of just changing it now, is just to give us a chance to get out of major combat.

    As for a closeted gay, killing a homophobe, people that are homophobic are really kind of picked on even more than guys who seem gay. Like I mentioned before, it can be homoerotic in the military, and when guys start talking about how they hate that "gay ****" or start calling guys fags and meaning it, they get it worse than anybody else.
    Last edited by WI Crippler; 01-15-09 at 11:38 AM.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    How did you know they were gay?
    Because the Good Reverend is such a stud, EVERYONE hits on me....

    Yeah, sometimes I can't believe its me either.

    How did they survive what with all of the people looking to shoot them in the back?
    Did I make that argument?


    What is your beef with DADT if you already know who all the gay soldiers are?

    I am not following your question here nor your assumption that I knew who All of the gay soldiers where..



    I know, you can tell. They don't write letters to girlfriends and wives right?


    They don't have pictures of love interests around.

    Let's just ignore the 800 lb. gorilla in the room.


    So you give me an argument I never made, then arguing it as if I hold said position?

    Come now, You should know by now this won't get past the Good REverend!
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Please support that these deaths were from stupid stuff.



    For what purpose?





    EDIT:

    Let me correct myself:

    George W. Bush . . . . . 5187 (2001-2004)
    Bill Clinton . . . . . . . . . 4302 (1993-1996)
    George H.W. Bush . . . . 6223 (1989-1992)
    Ronald Reagan . . . . . . 9163 (1981-1984)




    Anyway the point is, that during the "peacetime" that was the Clinton Administration, we had a lot of accidents, training mishaps, etc, that came from the gutting of the military and from down time mishaps.


    Also note this is total casualties. War casualties are currently 4,222 which is less than Bill Clintons total. Irrellevant I know, but interesting.
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 01-15-09 at 12:00 PM.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This is true, but you don't have to act on it. In the end you still have a choice. With race you have no choice.
    Well, then they are living in denial. I'm sure a person who is black could somehow be brainwashed to believe that they are actually white too. What's your point?

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Well call me silly but I would not want to shower with a gay men etc.

    If they had facility's set up to separate us like the females during training, I would not have an issue with it.
    If you've ever taken a gym class, played sports, or joined the military, you have showered with a gay man.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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