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Thread: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I see no arguments here that haven't been used over the decades as an excuse to discriminate against minorities and women. I'm particularly offended by the suggestion that our soldiers would deliberately frag gays during battle, just as I was offended when the same suggestion was offered decades ago in regards to integrating blacks into the military.

    Discrimination is discrimination, no matter how you dress it up and put lipstick on it.
    Please take the blinders off, there is no discrimination being done.

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    Please take the blinders off, there is no discrimination being done.
    ....any blacks getting removed from the military for being black? Being removed from the military for sexual orientation is discrimination or do you not understand that signaling a particular group out because of something people who created DADT oppose is discrimination?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    Please take the blinders off, there is no discrimination being done.
    It is discrimination by definition.

    But then not all discrimination is bad. We discriminate against those convicted against sexual assaults on minors and not allow them to be day care operators or teachers for example.

    IMO, the discrimination against gays in the military is wrong, but it is discrimination.

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I am also saying that if you change a policy like this in the middle of a war you are gonna get someone killed. not one life is worth a social experiment/change for ones political agenda.
    You wanna know what really gets people killed?

    1) Not having enough troops. Considering how overstretched our military already is, you'd think that the 12,500 gay soldiers kicked out of the military since DADT started might have been useful. Guess you don't think so.

    2) Not being able to understand the enemy.
    We have a massive shortage of Arabic translators, which gets troops killed every day. It's a shame we kicked 80 of them out for being gay since 2003 alone, because otherwise some red-blooded straight American soldiers might not have been killed because of inadequate intelligence. But I guess you think that's far less important than whether or not the troops have to deal with QUEERS in their midst.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Question for you "pro-gay military" folk:

    What purpose is there in openly allowing gays to serve. What does this accomplish?
    Question for you "pro-black military" folk:

    What purpose is there in openly allowing blacks to serve. What does this accomplish?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    It is discrimination by definition.

    But then not all discrimination is bad. We discriminate against those convicted against sexual assaults on minors and not allow them to be day care operators or teachers for example.

    IMO, the discrimination against gays in the military is wrong, but it is discrimination.
    Good post particularly from a liberal.

    These days in some PC quaters it seems like the very suggestion of discrimination in anything should be a capital offense.

    Personally I'm not a great fan of standing armies but I don't see many reasons why gays should not serve in the military but then again I don't see a lot of reason to rush into these sorts of things because of the clamours of a few PC thugs. It should be on the horizon but it isn't the biggest priority and should, like most things, be done with caution.

    It is shame that today one has to point out what was once so obvious a truth to all. That just because something doesn't serve a function as far as the individual can see does not mean that it is functionless even in ways very different from its alloted reason for being and therefore institutional and value changes should be approached with a great degree of caution.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-15-09 at 01:08 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post


    Question for you "pro-black military" folk:

    What purpose is there in openly allowing blacks to serve. What does this accomplish?
    Blacks already serve in the military.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Question for you "pro-black military" folk:

    What purpose is there in openly allowing blacks to serve. What does this accomplish?
    Well homosexuality is not a race.

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Well homosexuality is not a race.
    Well, by the same virtue that a person can't change the color of their skin, a person can't change who they are attracted to.

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    ....any blacks getting removed from the military for being black? Being removed from the military for sexual orientation is discrimination or do you not understand that signaling a particular group out because of something people who created DADT oppose is discrimination?
    Comparing blacks and females to DADT is ridiculous.
    Actual discrimination against them serving in the armed forces was based on race and gender not on sexual conduct.
    This isn't a case of discrimination on sexual orientation either, but of conduct.
    See below quote.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    It is discrimination by definition.

    But then not all discrimination is bad. We discriminate against those convicted against sexual assaults on minors and not allow them to be day care operators or teachers for example.

    IMO, the discrimination against gays in the military is wrong, but it is discrimination.
    I fully understand why you are calling it as such but it isn't discrimination within the confines of the Military environment as it would be in the civilian environment.
    And we are discussing the Military environment here, so in context, it is not.



    This persons opinion pretty much sums up why it isn't.


    'Don't ask, don't tell' is red herring in ROTC debate

    Published Monday, January 31, 2005

    To the Editor:

    ...

    Just to be clear, "don't ask, don't tell" is not a blanket discrimination against homosexuals. The most flamboyantly gay student can join the military if he is willing to abstain from homosexual behavior in the context of his training and service, just as the most morbidly obese candidate can join the service if he is willing to lose enough weight to meet the somewhat stringent and arbitrary physical standards applied to all active-duty personnel (regardless of their job). The military wants anyone who is qualified and willing to maintain military standards of conduct, and they particularly value the intelligent, competent leaders they find at elite universities.

    Soldiers are required to deprive themselves of many civil liberties while in the service of our country. It may surprise civilians to learn that these constraints go far beyond haircuts and earrings to encompass strict limits on free speech as well as social and sexual behavior. Furthermore, this code of conduct is open for review by all three branches of the federal government.

    It is true that any other employer would be charged with unlawful discrimination if it enforced a "don't ask, don't tell" policy on sexuality. But note likewise that any other employer would be hauled into court for enforcing such strict and arbitrary physical requirements as does the military, for forcing employees to at times work 100-hour weeks for below minimum wage, or for intentionally putting its employees in mortal danger. Yep, the military is pretty special.

    I personally know two homosexual men who discreetly served with distinction on active duty. I believe opponents of military access to the Ivy League cite discrimination as a red herring. I'm sure they have other reasons to despise the military, but it is a shame that they are keeping more of our country's most talented young leaders from serving in the armed forces.

    David Bookstaber '99
    Code:
    http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/13004

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    Re: Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Blacks already serve in the military.
    Yes, they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Well homosexuality is not a race.
    You're right. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that it's equally wrong to discriminate based on sexual preference.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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