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Thread: Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?

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    Re: Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?

    Once more we are confronted with the socialist argument that obscene corporate profits result in high prices when it is actually the opposite when Socialist nations pay DOUBLE what we are.
    So we should be like Europe and also have Health Care like Europe also? Maybe they pay double for those Socialized programs? Where is that money going?

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    Re: Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOP Socialist Soldier View Post
    So we should be like Europe and also have Health Care like Europe also? Maybe they pay double for those Socialized programs? Where is that money going?
    Seriously, how did you get ^^^ from TD's post that you quoted?

    I really want to know...

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    Re: Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOP Socialist Soldier View Post
    So we should be like Europe and also have Health Care like Europe also? Maybe they pay double for those Socialized programs? Where is that money going?
    So now you run away from your original specious arguments and jump to the next?

    They have Government provided healthcare because they pay DOUBLE our income taxes, pay DOUBLE our gas prices, pay more for consumer goods and pay double our social security taxes. On top of that their defense budgets are negligible because of all their social welfare programs and they rely on the USA to do their fighting for them.

    With all that, Europeans also historically have double the unemployment we have and half the GDP growth we have. Any other specious arguments you want to raise that I haven't answered here?


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    Re: Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?

    For an explanation of how simplistic 60 Minutes' report was:

    What 60 Minutes Missed on Oil Speculation | The Big Picture

    For an explanation of why this is just false:

    More on oil and speculation - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/op...27krugman.html

    For empirical evidence of why this is false:

    IEA says supply and demand - not speculation - boosts oil - Jul. 1, 2008

    This whole "oil speculation is the cause of high prices" reminds me a lot of the "vaccines cause autism" thing. People don't understand it, but it sounds right, makes them feel good, and gives them something to blame.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?

    W
    ith all that, Europeans also historically have double the unemployment we have and half the GDP growth we have. Any other specious arguments you want to raise that I haven't answered here?
    Yes. Why is the oil industry so corrupt and lie ridden and why would the media lie on this; a ruse?

    This whole "oil speculation is the cause of high prices" reminds me a lot of the "vaccines cause autism" thing.
    And the cause of the recent high rate of autism is due to what??? Please tell us.

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    Re: Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    For an explanation of how simplistic 60 Minutes' report was:

    What 60 Minutes Missed on Oil Speculation | The Big Picture

    For an explanation of why this is just false:

    More on oil and speculation - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/op...27krugman.html

    For empirical evidence of why this is false:

    IEA says supply and demand - not speculation - boosts oil - Jul. 1, 2008

    This whole "oil speculation is the cause of high prices" reminds me a lot of the "vaccines cause autism" thing. People don't understand it, but it sounds right, makes them feel good, and gives them something to blame.
    This is all new to me, and beyond the 60 Minutes piece, I don't know a lot futures markets. I did go to one of your provided links (the first one), Right, and found that there were a lot of negative comments about it. These are some of the comments, if anyone would like to reply to them, I'd be happy to get that side.

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    Andy Tabbo Says:
    January 12th, 2009 at 8:30 am
    Generally agree here Barry, but I don’t like the way you summarily dismissed Master’s claims. You’re entitled to your own ideas, but not your own facts. The fact is that pension funs and endowments plowed large sums of money into all “commodities” as a new “asset class” in 2004. This was not “hot money.” This was large money that was sold the bill of goods that they could diversify away from stocks (stung by the 2000-2002 collapse) into a “new asset class.”

    It was complete bull**** of course. The CRB indexes all saw a sharp uptick in “long only” investing of commodities in 2004 that continued on a parabolic rate in 2005, 06, 07 and 2008. The amount of money flowing into commodities was “small” compared to the equity and bond markets, but was actually a VERY large sum of money compared to the extremely tiny commodity markets.

    The fact is that this instutional flow of funds into the “new asset class” SWAMPED the relatively tiny commodity pits beginning in 2004.

    Yes, yes, yes…there was a “good story” to go with it…yada, yada, yada…China, India, etc….but you cannot dismiss the “new asset class” development starting in 2004.

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    Cybernaught Says:
    January 12th, 2009 at 9:09 am
    Yes Barry. There were and are many factors affecting the price of commodities.

    If true, the fact that 300 billion of speculative money could move the oil market and create the kind of blowoff that extracted hundreds of billions from the pockets of consumers, calls into question the “efficiency” of the present form of the “free” capitalist system. In a time of 50 billion $ ponzi schemes, and trillion $ bailouts, that kind of money is easy to assemble. If it’s so easy to game the system, the system is seriously flawed. The post-bailout world, awash with dollars awaits.

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    Chief Tomahawk Says:
    January 12th, 2009 at 9:15 am
    By the way, I was watching CNBC the day oil broke last summer. CNBC cut to Sharon Epperson in the pits and said the explanation for what was going on was “the banks were selling”. So, perhaps “60 Minutes” did get that part of the story right last night.

    ------------

    Barry you missed the point, 60 minutes was just showing another way that speculators have contributed to our downfall, and should have their heads mounted firmly on stakes. Speculators big and small all had their part from the little guy getting cash out of his house value like an atm, and buying an SUV with the money, to the folks living an unrealistic lifestyle in an overpopulated city that sucks off the entire GDP of this nation to sustain itself. I predict that as long as people keep missing the point that we are living byond our means, we are doomed to failure.


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    flipspiceland Says:
    January 12th, 2009 at 10:04 am
    They may have missed 59 other reasons, but the number of those 59 reasons do not amount to a hill of beans.

    Speculators, and ONLY speculators caused the rapid rise in a few months. I was one of them.

    ------------

    BR: while many of the factors you mention may be relevant it doesn’t recognize the fact that over an 18 month period oil went from around 60 bucks to 147 bucks while real demand was falling for part of the period. And surely Masters book is irrelevant that’s a bit of personlization. Croft also had a guy from the Petroleum Marketers and the OFTC both of whom confirmed what happened. The juxtaposition of the Morgan guy with the email of his global strategist was classic. You’re stretching a bit here.
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

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    Re: Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOP Socialist Soldier View Post
    And the cause of the recent high rate of autism is due to what??? Please tell us.
    Better detection, adjusted definition of the autism spectrum, etc. You actually think it's the vaccines?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?

    Better detection, adjusted definition of the autism spectrum, etc. You actually think it's the vaccines?
    I don't know what it is, do you? Why are we having kids born with Autism at a greater rate in America vs. past generations? If mercury or whatever is in the vaccines isn't causing it--shouldn't we get these materials out of vaccines anyway?


    Once more we are confronted with the socialist argument that obscene corporate profits result in high prices
    But America is Socialist, the GOP is officially Socialist; it's Socialist fact, not argument via the present via present oil policy. As a voter for GOP Socialist McCain, I realize that, maybe you didn't vote for Marxist Obama or Socialist McCain--good for you--I don't know.

    Let's not defend the Socialist Oil policies of Congress or of the President. Maybe this 60 minutes thing was a ruse to throw us off to the real corruption of oil and the Socialist Policy the media really never examines for any length or intensity.


    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...socialist.html


    Democratic Socialism v. Republican Socialism: Is That Our Choice in 2008? The New Media Journal | Democratic Socialism v. Republican Socialism: Is That Our Choice in 2008? by JB Williams

    Republicans hate Socialists. Yet admit Socialist Tax policy is better for Corporations Democrats & Liberals: Republicans hate Socialists. Yet admit Socialist Tax policy is better for Corporations

    Republicans are The Real Socialists: Hale "Bonddad" Stewart: Republicans are The Real Socialists

    YouTube - Socialism-As American As Apple Pie
    Last edited by GOP Socialist Soldier; 01-15-09 at 05:42 PM.

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