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Thread: 'Smoke-free Taiwan' takes effect today

  1. #11
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    Re: 'Smoke-free Taiwan' takes effect today

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You are the one who is crying. Business is "public access". There is no right to spread poison in a place that is accessable to the public.
    Private business is a different matter.

    If i choose to go to a club or pub or any other business which welcomes smokers, i should be allowed to do so. It should be the Non smoker who enters at their own risk.

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    Re: 'Smoke-free Taiwan' takes effect today

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Private business is a different matter.

    If i choose to go to a club or pub or any other business which welcomes smokers, i should be allowed to do so. It should be the Non smoker who enters at their own risk.
    If a business is offering a service to the public, the government has the right to regulate it. This is true in Western democracies, and even more true in Asia. Part of the issue in this part of the world is the population density we have to face. We live with population densities that people in the West simply do not understand. As such, a small amount of freedom must be given up in order to maintain an orderly society that protects the rights of the majority of the people.
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    Re: 'Smoke-free Taiwan' takes effect today

    Public areas = fine. Im willing to comply but private businesses? Closed areas? A non smoker needs some personal responsibility.
    If you don't want to be around smoke, don't go into certain clubs which is certain to be dominated by smokers.

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    Re: 'Smoke-free Taiwan' takes effect today

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    If a business is offering a service to the public, the government has the right to regulate it.
    It is also the right of the nonsmoker to not go into a smoking establishment. I don't buy into the whole persecution of smokers and the "b-b-but it's my health they are harming" bull****. If an establishment is doing the level of business it wants by welcoming smokers, it should be their right to do so and nonsmokers who puss out over the topic of smoking should just not go. If that is enough to hurt the business, then the market decided rather than some fascist government involvement.

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    Re: 'Smoke-free Taiwan' takes effect today

    You are the one who is crying.
    The "I know you are but what am I?" tactic is it? Come now, you're better than that...

    Business is "public access".
    There is a difference between public access and public domain. The public domain is collectively owned by the populace, as such they have a right to manage its operation, conversely, a private business owner permits the public to access their property. You do not have a right to occupy their property - much less dictate the manner in which they run their business - unless they permit it.

    If you do not like the way an individual runs their business then you are free to leave anytime you wish. It's that simple. No need to bust out your camera phone and start hollering for the government thugs every time someone offends your delicate sensibilities.

    There is no right to spread poison in a place that is accessable to the public.
    Your logic is ass-backwards. It's not your property, end of story. That you could feasibly gain access to said property does not entitle you to manage its affairs.

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    Re: 'Smoke-free Taiwan' takes effect today

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The "I know you are but what am I?" tactic is it? Come now, you're better than that...


    There is a difference between public access and public domain. The public domain is collectively owned by the populace, as such they have a right to manage its operation, conversely, a private business owner permits the public to access their property. You do not have a right to occupy their property - much less dictate the manner in which they run their business - unless they permit it.
    However, once you permit that access, you then grant the government certain rights to regulate that business in the interests of the public. Unless you are advocating absolutely NO government interference at all in the operations of private business. The government issues the business permit and has the right to make reasonable restrictions in the public interest. This is especially important in a place as crowded as Taiwan - one of the world's most crowded countries.

    If you do not like the way an individual runs their business then you are free to leave anytime you wish. It's that simple. No need to bust out your camera phone and start hollering for the government thugs every time someone offends your delicate sensibilities.
    Hey - I am just following the law. Why can't the businesses?

    Your logic is ass-backwards. It's not your property, end of story. That you could feasibly gain access to said property does not entitle you to manage its affairs.
    When they open up their business, it becomes public access and the government has the right and responsibility to protect the public.

    This law also included places like bus stops and public parks.

    You live in a country that is not as crowded as Taiwan. Only one country in the world (with more than 10 million people) is more crowded than Taiwan - and our population is concentrated in a small part of the country. That means we need to give up a little more of this "freedom" in the public interest.
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    Re: 'Smoke-free Taiwan' takes effect today

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post




    However, once you permit that access, you then grant the government certain rights to regulate that business in the interests of the public. Unless you are advocating absolutely NO government interference at all in the operations of private business. The government issues the business permit and has the right to make reasonable restrictions in the public interest. This is especially important in a place as crowded as Taiwan - one of the world's most crowded countries.



    Hey - I am just following the law. Why can't the businesses?



    When they open up their business, it becomes public access and the government has the right and responsibility to protect the public.

    This law also included places like bus stops and public parks.

    You live in a country that is not as crowded as Taiwan. Only one country in the world (with more than 10 million people) is more crowded than Taiwan - and our population is concentrated in a small part of the country. That means we need to give up a little more of this "freedom" in the public interest.
    No, you think some should give up more freedoms to others. Again, I don't care how crowded you are, don't go into a smoking establishment if you have that big a problem with it. It's really simple.

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    Re: 'Smoke-free Taiwan' takes effect today

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, you think some should give up more freedoms to others. Again, I don't care how crowded you are, don't go into a smoking establishment if you have that big a problem with it. It's really simple.
    You do not have the freedom to emit poison into the air without the government being able to have a say in it to protect the health of the vast majority of people who do not smoke. BTW, due to how crowded many places here are, smoking in some establishments does indeed affect its neighbors.
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    Re: 'Smoke-free Taiwan' takes effect today

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    article here



    Time for non-smokers to take the offensive against smokers. Some local governments (including where I live) are providing incentives to provide evidence of non-compliance and offering a portion of the fine money to those who provide photographic evidence leading to the imposition and payment of fines.
    I am fine with the bans on smoking, but providing incentives to those who rat out their neighbors is absolutely ridiculous. It's none of your business whether someone wants to follow a law or not, as it's simply a matter between the enforcer of the law, and the law breaker.

    I love to read books about dystopia, like 1984 and We, and turning neighbors on neighbors appears to be a common theme of dystopia. You should not be happy with that, you should be scared.
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    Re: 'Smoke-free Taiwan' takes effect today

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You do not have the freedom to emit poison into the air without the government being able to have a say in it to protect the health of the vast majority of people who do not smoke. BTW, due to how crowded many places here are, smoking in some establishments does indeed affect its neighbors.
    You act as if smokers are belching global air pollution. They aren't, no matter how much you need that hyperbole to suppress their individual choices. If you don't like smoke, don't go into a smoking establishment. It's that simple.

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