Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 24

Thread: US job losses hit record in 2008

  1. #11
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: US job losses hit record in 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    I had great hopes for Obama until he confirmed he will bring your national budget into trillion dollar deficits, each year, and in addition pay for a stimulation package of 800 billion. Financial irresponsibility was what got you here in the first place, his solutions will rather bring more financial mess to your country and encourage more investors to withdraw their money from US assets, which in the end will translate to even higher unemployment rates, more debt and even less faith in your economy.

    Bill Clinton for president 2012!!!
    Deficit spending makes sense during a recession. If the government decreases its spending at a time when businesses and consumers have already decreased THEIR spending, it will just make the problem worse.

    The economy needs an enormous stimulus package. Perhaps you don't realize how severe the situation is. This is no ordinary recession.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  2. #12
    Human 2.0
    Maximus Zeebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Europe
    Last Seen
    09-07-17 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,568

    Re: US job losses hit record in 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Deficit spending makes sense during a recession. If the government decreases its spending at a time when businesses and consumers have already decreased THEIR spending, it will just make the problem worse.

    The economy needs an enormous stimulus package. Perhaps you don't realize how severe the situation is. This is no ordinary recession.
    Does it really make sense if the recession came as a result of deficits and debts in the first place, which led to investors withdrawing their money from the US as a result of it and lack of trust in your abilities to run a fiscally responsible country..

    I sure as hell do not invest in indebted companies with no prospects except to try to save themselves with more debts.. No way!
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  3. #13
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: US job losses hit record in 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Does it really make sense if the recession came as a result of deficits and debts in the first place,
    The cause of the recession makes little difference. Government spending helps the economy...ESPECIALLY when the private sector is not spending. To choke off government spending AND private spending is a recipe for disaster.

    This is a good opportunity to do some of the things that need to be done anyway: Establish universal health care, repair our infrastructure, expand the EITC, and build a high-speed rail system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra
    which led to investors withdrawing their money from the US as a result of it and lack of trust in your abilities to run a fiscally responsible country..

    I sure as hell do not invest in indebted companies with no prospects except to try to save themselves with more debts.. No way!
    Governments are not companies. Companies are not tasked with saving the entire economy, they're tasked with delivering profits to their shareholders.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-10-09 at 02:14 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  4. #14
    Human 2.0
    Maximus Zeebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Europe
    Last Seen
    09-07-17 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,568

    Re: US job losses hit record in 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The cause of the recession makes little difference. Government spending helps the economy...ESPECIALLY when the private sector is not spending. To choke off government spending AND private spending is a recipe for disaster.
    I dont agree with this at all. Its not wise to spend money you do not have, and its not wise to loan more money than you can handle paying back. The US already pays 300 billion dollars every year from the federal budget in interest rates. Thats 1000$ per person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This is a good opportunity to do some of the things that need to be done anyway: Establish universal health care, repair our infrastructure, expand the EITC, and build a high-speed rail system.
    I completely agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Governments are not companies. Companies are not tasked with saving the entire economy, they're tasked with delivering profits to their shareholders.
    Well, but one can easily draw parallels, but if the situation get to severe, like it is in the US now, with overwhelming debts, it will undoubtfully lower its value(dollar and share of world economy).
    Last edited by Maximus Zeebra; 01-10-09 at 03:25 PM.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  5. #15
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,900

    Re: US job losses hit record in 2008

    This is a good opportunity to do some of the things that need to be done anyway: Establish universal health care, repair our infrastructure, expand the EITC, and build a high-speed rail system.
    Universal healthcare is not going to happen.

    Obama's public works programs will hopefully be implemented, because the infrastructure in the US is basically falling apart. Plus, it means more money for me!

    What is EITC?

    I dont agree with this at all. Its not wise to spend money you do not have, and its not wise to loan more money than you can handle paying back. The US already pays 300 billion dollars every year from the federal budget in interest rates. Thats 1000$ per person.
    Good thing you're not an economist. But you are right about one thing; the US economy is ****ed, and nothing will make it better.

    Well, but one can easily draw parallels, but if the situation get to severe, like it is in the US now, with overwhelming debts, it will undoubtfully lower its value(dollar and share of world economy).
    It is severe all across the world. This wasn't caused by the US government but by the actions of private investors and companies.

  6. #16
    Human 2.0
    Maximus Zeebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Europe
    Last Seen
    09-07-17 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,568

    Re: US job losses hit record in 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Universal healthcare is not going to happen.

    Obama's public works programs will hopefully be implemented, because the infrastructure in the US is basically falling apart. Plus, it means more money for me!

    What is EITC?



    Good thing you're not an economist. But you are right about one thing; the US economy is ****ed, and nothing will make it better.



    It is severe all across the world. This wasn't caused by the US government but by the actions of private investors and companies.
    Oops, 1 0too much..

    I agree with the rest, except hopefully healthcare will happen.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  7. #17
    Sage
    DeeJayH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Scooping Zeus' Poop
    Last Seen
    06-21-15 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    11,728

    Re: US job losses hit record in 2008

    Hey Max, how is the ****hole you come from doing??

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

  8. #18
    Human 2.0
    Maximus Zeebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Europe
    Last Seen
    09-07-17 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,568

    Re: US job losses hit record in 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeJayH View Post
    Hey Max, how is the ****hole you come from doing??
    Its stable, but ****ty like always, same bickering amongst politicians like in the US, same structural problems, but then afterall its the richest country in the world, so we can afford it. But our politicians are dumb assholes like those of the US as well, under ambitious and focusing on all the wrong things, short thinking and same type of silly circus elections, with less and less focus on actual politics.. So pretty much we have the same structural problems as you, but we are better off because socialism and oil has saved our economy from the huge downturn you are experiencing.

    Now I live in Spain, here its fine, good weather, fine women, hot beaches, nice water temperatures.. I hardly notice the layoffs, except things are getting cheaper.

    If however you are referring to my home planet, its doing far better than earth
    Last edited by Maximus Zeebra; 01-10-09 at 06:03 PM.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  9. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ventura California
    Last Seen
    11-15-11 @ 11:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,706

    Re: US job losses hit record in 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The cause of the recession makes little difference. Government spending helps the economy...ESPECIALLY when the private sector is not spending. To choke off government spending AND private spending is a recipe for disaster.

    This is a good opportunity to do some of the things that need to be done anyway: Establish universal health care, repair our infrastructure, expand the EITC, and build a high-speed rail system.
    If Government spending was the end all answer to economic prosperity, Keynes would be a hero today. Instead, he has been relegated to the trash heap of old failed economic theory.

    Introducing Obama; the new hero of Keynesian theory; but alas, where, one may ask, does one get the money to spend 1.9 trillion to revive the economy? Why they borrow or print is the age old answer. But what happens when you borrow too much and start printing too much becomes the question? You get inflation with a devaluation of the money because supply has been increased too much to pay off current obligations and interest. What happens when you get inflation? You get less buying and as a result, the double edged whammy of high unemployment combined with high inflation.

    So what then is the answer to the current recession? The answer comes by understanding that free markets have cycles and we are currently in an adjusting cycle called recession. They occur with much more limited frequency as a result of market influences like Government interventionism making home loans readily available to people who can't afford them which thus creates a "bubble" in demand combined with a failure to pay.

    It also occurs when these mortgages get bundled by quasi Government agencies as safe derivatives backed by mortgages.

    When one understands that this is not the crises to end all crises and that we have been in much tougher times where inflation was higher, unemployment much higher and interest rates much higher, they then resist the temptation to OVER REACT to create a far worse situation in the future.

    Unfortunately the current mentality of the country is so lemming like that we forget these very important historic lessons and pretend that Government can spend and borrow us into prosperity; that is a false economy and can only be professed through ignorance. The ONLY thing that can allow the economy to recover is by renewing confidence to the consumer and having them re-engage by starting to spend and save again. In addition, we need our Government to act responsibly by cutting spending and reducing the deficits.

    Remember the OIL Crises last summer? Government Liberals were all in a panic with $140 a barrel oil prices and gas prices hovering over $4.00 a gallon. They ranted about obscene oil profits and demanded penitence from the greedy oil barons, they pointed the finger of blame at Bush for letting his "cronies" gouge the American consumer and they claimed the ONLY solution was to release oil from the vast Government Strategic reserves.

    But alas, the market did work. Demand dropped and so did oil prices and the speculatory pressures on them. Now gas is under $2.00 a gallon and a barrel of oil is about $40. Is it not surprising now how those same rabid Liberals who pointed their fingers of blame at the Oil CEOs and Bush are now silent and NOT giving the same credit for the DROP in fuel costs and have moved onto the latest "chicken Little" issue.

    One thing is certain with Liberals and their willing accomplices in the Democrat party, they will always be quick to point the finger of blame at those they politically disagree with, claim ALL issues are a “crises” which requires their actions and NEVER point the finger of blame at their own reflection in the mirror.

    Carry on.

  10. #20
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: US job losses hit record in 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    If Government spending was the end all answer to economic prosperity, Keynes would be a hero today. Instead, he has been relegated to the trash heap of old failed economic theory.
    Umm I don't know what you're talking about. When I was in b-school a couple years ago, we spent a lot of time talking about Keynesian economics. It's hardly "relegated to the trash heap," it's been the standard economic philosophy of this country for most of the past 70 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    Introducing Obama; the new hero of Keynesian theory; but alas, where, one may ask, does one get the money to spend 1.9 trillion to revive the economy? Why they borrow or print is the age old answer. But what happens when you borrow too much and start printing too much becomes the question?
    No one is suggesting that we borrow a lot of money every year for all eternity. That is obviously not sustainable. But during a severe recession it DOES make sense to borrow-and-spend. After the recession ends, we can eliminate some of the excess recession spending and raise taxes to pay for the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    You get inflation with a devaluation of the money because supply has been increased too much to pay off current obligations and interest. What happens when you get inflation? You get less buying and as a result, the double edged whammy of high unemployment combined with high inflation.
    The big risk during a severe recession is DEFLATION. If we can offset that, then that's a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    So what then is the answer to the current recession? The answer comes by understanding that free markets have cycles and we are currently in an adjusting cycle called recession.
    Of course. I'm not one to claim that recessions can be avoided if we just do X, Y, and Z. They are naturally part of the economic cycle. However, the severity of the recession can be somewhat mitigated with more government spending. This is not a run-of-the-mill recession. This is an EXTREMELY severe recession, teetering on the brink of a full-blown depression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    They occur with much more limited frequency as a result of market influences like Government interventionism making home loans readily available to people who can't afford them which thus creates a "bubble" in demand combined with a failure to pay.

    It also occurs when these mortgages get bundled by quasi Government agencies as safe derivatives backed by mortgages.
    It wasn't government interventionism by itself that made those loans readily available to people who couldn't afford them. There were plenty of private banks doing the same thing. Irrational exuberance and bubbles will happen from time to time, regardless of government interventionism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    When one understands that this is not the crises to end all crises and that we have been in much tougher times where inflation was higher, unemployment much higher and interest rates much higher, they then resist the temptation to OVER REACT to create a far worse situation in the future.
    And I think this is a very dangerous mindset. This *is* a very severe crisis, and the instances when we have been in "much tougher times" are few and far between. This is the worst recession since the Great Depression and has the realistic possibility of becoming just as bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    Unfortunately the current mentality of the country is so lemming like that we forget these very important historic lessons and pretend that Government can spend and borrow us into prosperity; that is a false economy and can only be professed through ignorance.
    Again, I'm not suggesting that we borrow and spend forever. Just during this recession. After that, we can look at cutting spending and raising taxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    The ONLY thing that can allow the economy to recover is by renewing confidence to the consumer and having them re-engage by starting to spend and save again. In addition, we need our Government to act responsibly by cutting spending and reducing the deficits.
    And how do you propose we renew consumer confidence and have consumers spend again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    Remember the OIL Crises last summer? Government Liberals were all in a panic with $140 a barrel oil prices and gas prices hovering over $4.00 a gallon. They ranted about obscene oil profits and demanded penitence from the greedy oil barons, they pointed the finger of blame at Bush for letting his "cronies" gouge the American consumer and they claimed the ONLY solution was to release oil from the vast Government Strategic reserves.

    But alas, the market did work. Demand dropped and so did oil prices and the speculatory pressures on them. Now gas is under $2.00 a gallon and a barrel of oil is about $40. Is it not surprising now how those same rabid Liberals who pointed their fingers of blame at the Oil CEOs and Bush are now silent and NOT giving the same credit for the DROP in fuel costs and have moved onto the latest "chicken Little" issue.

    One thing is certain with Liberals and their willing accomplices in the Democrat party, they will always be quick to point the finger of blame at those they politically disagree with, claim ALL issues are a “crises” which requires their actions and NEVER point the finger of blame at their own reflection in the mirror.

    Carry on.
    What you imagine The Big Bad Liberals believe is of little relevance to this policy discussion.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •