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No decision on Madoff bail until Monday

DAR

DAR

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No decision on Madoff bail until Monday
TOM HAYS and LARRY NEUMEISTER Associated Press Writers said:
NEW YORK (AP) -- Bernard Madoff avoided the dismal prospect of spending the weekend in jail Friday as a judge delayed a decision on whether to revoke his bail amid allegations that the disgraced financier is trying to keep his assets away from investors burned by a $50 billion fraud.

[...]

The bail decision by Magistrate Judge Ronald L. Ellis has been highly anticipated amid an outcry by the public, investors and prosecutors that Madoff be sent to jail. Investors have been especially incensed that a man accused of the largest fraud in history is allowed to spend his days and nights in his $7 million luxury Manhattan apartment.

[...]

Madoff was later ordered to be confined to his apartment 24 hours per day with a private guard paid for by Madoff's wife.
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This scumbag should have been sitting in a jail cell since his arrest in early December. Detainment in a $7,000,000 luxury Manhattan apartment hardly seems appropriate given the magnitude and impact of the fraud he perpetrated. Arrest me--on any valid charge--and I would be absolutely delighted to be able to spend my time detained with Ms. DAR in our modest apartment rather than the County cubes or the cells at Rahway.

So why isn't this dirtbag in jail yet? I know people who have been held in jail for offenses that pale in comparison to Madoff's ponzi scheme.

Regards,
DAR
 
Am I the only one incensed by this? How is it he remains free, even after he broke his bail by sending relatives a million dollars worth of jewelry?

I can just shake my head and think there's different justice for different classes.


Bernard Madoff Will Remain Free on Bail, Judge Rules (Update4)
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By David Glovin and Erik Larson

Jan. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Bernard Madoff will remain free on a $10 million bond, a federal judge ruled, denying a request by U.S. prosecutors that he be jailed while awaiting trial on a federal securities fraud charge.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Ronald Ellis in Manhattan today said Madoff, arrested last month for running an alleged $50 billion Ponzi scheme, may continue to live under house arrest in his Manhattan apartment on the Upper East Side. Ellis imposed new conditions, ordering Madoff to compile an inventory of all items in his home and barring him from transferring property.

“Because the government has failed to meet its legal burden, the motion is denied,” Ellis wrote in the order. “The government has failed to articulate any flaw in the current conditions of release.”

Prosecutors agreed to delay seeking a grand jury indictment of Madoff. He is now scheduled to appear in court Feb. 11 for an evidentiary hearing. If indicted before then, he must appear before a judge to answer the new charges, at which time the government may ask again for him to be jailed. Now charged with one count of securities fraud, Madoff faces as much as 20 years in prison and a $5 million fine if convicted.

Prosecutors on Jan. 5 asked Ellis to jail Madoff because he mailed items including a diamond bracelet and watches to relatives in violation of a court-ordered asset freeze. In a letter to Ellis two days later, Madoff’s defense lawyer, Ira Sorkin, said his client didn’t know the order from a related lawsuit by securities regulators applied to personal items.

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide
 
I can't help but notice that his name is Madoff, as in "Madoff with a lot of other peoples' money". :mrgreen:
 
Middleground said:
Am I the only one incensed by this? How is it he remains free, even after he broke his bail by sending relatives a million dollars worth of jewelry?

I can just shake my head and think there's different justice for different classes.


Bernard Madoff Will Remain Free on Bail, Judge Rules (Update4)
Email | Print | A A A

By David Glovin and Erik Larson

Jan. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Bernard Madoff will remain free on a $10 million bond, a federal judge ruled, denying a request by U.S. prosecutors that he be jailed while awaiting trial on a federal securities fraud charge.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Ronald Ellis in Manhattan today said Madoff, arrested last month for running an alleged $50 billion Ponzi scheme, may continue to live under house arrest in his Manhattan apartment on the Upper East Side. Ellis imposed new conditions, ordering Madoff to compile an inventory of all items in his home and barring him from transferring property.

“Because the government has failed to meet its legal burden, the motion is denied,” Ellis wrote in the order. “The government has failed to articulate any flaw in the current conditions of release.”

Prosecutors agreed to delay seeking a grand jury indictment of Madoff. He is now scheduled to appear in court Feb. 11 for an evidentiary hearing. If indicted before then, he must appear before a judge to answer the new charges, at which time the government may ask again for him to be jailed. Now charged with one count of securities fraud, Madoff faces as much as 20 years in prison and a $5 million fine if convicted.

Prosecutors on Jan. 5 asked Ellis to jail Madoff because he mailed items including a diamond bracelet and watches to relatives in violation of a court-ordered asset freeze. In a letter to Ellis two days later, Madoff’s defense lawyer, Ira Sorkin, said his client didn’t know the order from a related lawsuit by securities regulators applied to personal items.

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide
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He wasn't trying to flee and he isn't a danger to the community so I guess the law has to apply to him even though he's a scumbag. He gets bail.
 
danarhea said:
I can't help but notice that his name is Madoff, as in "Madoff with a lot of other peoples' money". :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that was mentioned the first day the scandal was announced. Where ya been? :)
 
bhkad said:
He wasn't trying to flee and he isn't a danger to the community so I guess the law has to apply to him even though he's a scumbag. He gets bail.
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That didn't work for Don Seigleman. His ass was whisked off, pronto.
 
Middleground said:
Am I the only one incensed by this? How is it he remains free, even after he broke his bail by sending relatives a million dollars worth of jewelry?
Click to expand...
When Ms. DAR told me that he was not carted off to jail today, I was pretty incensed, too. Every time I see his ugly face on television I wonder why he's not in jail yet. Especially after the jewelry stunt that he pulled.

But then I thought... maybe, just maybe, the judge knows his wife. And maybe, just maybe, she's a crazy, lunatic, psycho bitch that's giving him more s**t at home than any cellmate ever could. Madoff might just be begging for a jail cell and the judge is just laughing at him. Now that would be sweet.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he offed himself a day or two before his trial and never gets to spend a night in jail.
Middleground said:
I can just shake my head and think there's different justice for different classes.
Click to expand...
Sad, huh?

Regards,
DAR
 
Bkhad has it right. There are only two reasons ever to deny bail to an accused. If the court finds that they're a flight risk, or if the court finds that they pose a danger to the community. It doesn't matter whether you think Madoff is a jerk or not, if he can satisfy the court to the point that they agree that he is not likely to violate either of those conditions, then they have no reason to deny him bail.

Middleground said:
That didn't work for Don Seigleman. His ass was whisked off, pronto.
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That's not true. Siegelman was released on bond pending trial.
 
RightinNYC said:
Bkhad has it right. There are only two reasons ever to deny bail to an accused. If the court finds that they're a flight risk, or if the court finds that they pose a danger to the community. It doesn't matter whether you think Madoff is a jerk or not, if he can satisfy the court to the point that they agree that he is not likely to violate either of those conditions, then they have no reason to deny him bail.



That's not true. Siegelman was released on bond pending trial.
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With the kind of money he has, how could he not be a flight risk?
 
RightinNYC said:
That's not true. Siegelman was released on bond pending trial.
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You're right, but this is what I meant:

A petition from 44 former State Attorneys General noted that Governor Siegelman was "denied 45 days to report to prison to give him time to put his affairs in order, an opportunity which is commonly granted" and observed that "because Governor Siegelman is not in any way a flight risk, the denial of a bond pending appeal appears inappropriate, and the shackling of the Governor in handcuffs and leg irons as he was taken out of the courtroom was shocking." The petition noted in contrast that when "another former Governor of Alabama was convicted of corruption charges a few years ago in a case where he personally benefited from his action," unlike Siegelman, he was merely sentenced to probation and that case "was handled by the same lead prosecutor." The petition from the former state attorneys general then noted that "The sentence sought by the prosecutor in Governor Siegelman’s case – 30 years – was excessively disproportionate."[32]

Don Siegelman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
American justice doing crap like Madoff and any form of justice that does not put him in a cage now is anti-American or maybe it is the new American. I hate this part of my country and would refuse military service if this is what we are now. I watched the Enron thugs up their noses at my country and I grow more towards the thinking that the rich now are no longer a part of this country, rather a part of a world-wide group of 6,000 ultra weathy people that make world policy. I carry the image of tens of thousand of white crosses in graveyards overseas as a reminder of what we once were and hoped to be and have now failed.

Signed,
A once proud veteran
 
Middleground said:
With the kind of money he has, how could he not be a flight risk?
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Because he turned in his passport, is wearing an electronic monitoring bracelet, has guards posted at his apartment 24/7, and is under constant watch by the media?

Middleground said:
You're right, but this is what I meant:

A petition from 44 former State Attorneys General noted that Governor Siegelman was "denied 45 days to report to prison to give him time to put his affairs in order, an opportunity which is commonly granted" and observed that "because Governor Siegelman is not in any way a flight risk, the denial of a bond pending appeal appears inappropriate, and the shackling of the Governor in handcuffs and leg irons as he was taken out of the courtroom was shocking." The petition noted in contrast that when "another former Governor of Alabama was convicted of corruption charges a few years ago in a case where he personally benefited from his action," unlike Siegelman, he was merely sentenced to probation and that case "was handled by the same lead prosecutor." The petition from the former state attorneys general then noted that "The sentence sought by the prosecutor in Governor Siegelman’s case – 30 years – was excessively disproportionate."[32]

Don Siegelman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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As you pointed out, that's a completely different situation.
 
rhinefire said:
American justice doing crap like Madoff and any form of justice that does not put him in a cage now is anti-American or maybe it is the new American. I hate this part of my country and would refuse military service if this is what we are now. I watched the Enron thugs up their noses at my country and I grow more towards the thinking that the rich now are no longer a part of this country, rather a part of a world-wide group of 6,000 ultra weathy people that make world policy. I carry the image of tens of thousand of white crosses in graveyards overseas as a reminder of what we once were and hoped to be and have now failed.

Signed,
A once proud veteran
Click to expand...

Your version of the American way is putting people in a cage without any evidence of guilt or indication that they will flee or be a danger to the community?

I prefer the "new American way" to yours, thank you very much.
 
RightinNYC said:
Your version of the American way is putting people in a cage without any evidence of guilt or indication that they will flee or be a danger to the community?

I prefer the "new American way" to yours, thank you very much.
Click to expand...

There is plenty of evidence against Madoff.

And he should be in jail.

If a guy held up a bank with a note saying he had a gun, he would be held in jail until trial even if he never had a gun. And he would have been able to steal only a couple thousand dollars or so. Nobody's life would have been ruined, no one's retirement decimated. (Course, he should be in jail, just like Madoff should)

This sociopath Madoff has ruined lives. He has taken billions of dollars from people in one of the biggest crimes ever. He has no conscience, is emotionally only a borderline human being, and is capable of anything. He should have been jailed from his arrest.
 
tryreading said:
There is plenty of evidence against Madoff
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That's not one of the bail considerations.

And he should be in jail.
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Neither is that.

If a guy held up a bank with a note saying he had a gun, he would be held in jail until trial even if he never had a gun.
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No, he probably wouldn't.

And he would have been able to steal only a couple thousand dollars or so. Nobody's life would have been ruined, no one's retirement decimated. (Course, he should be in jail, just like Madoff should)

This sociopath Madoff has ruined lives. He has taken billions of dollars from people in one of the biggest crimes ever. He has no conscience, is emotionally only a borderline human being, and is capable of anything. He should have been jailed from his arrest.
Click to expand...

The reason we have magistrates determine bail is so that emotional arguments like yours are discarded. You don't get to put someone in jail simply because you think they're bad, or even if you think they're really really really really really bad, as you apparently do.

Rule of law > "I totally hate that guy so **** him"
 
RightinNYC said:
The reason we have magistrates determine bail is so that emotional arguments like yours are discarded. You don't get to put someone in jail simply because you think they're bad, or even if you think they're really really really really really bad, as you apparently do.

Rule of law > "I totally hate that guy so **** him"
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No, its common sense, not emotion. A crime like this affects a lot of people. This is stealing on an almost unheard-of level. At the least, this guy should be treated as badly as the more common petty criminal.
 
tryreading said:
No, its common sense, not emotion. A crime like this affects a lot of people. This is stealing on an almost unheard-of level. At the least, this guy should be treated as badly as the more common petty criminal.
Click to expand...

No, he should be treated the way our law provides for. Our law provides for a bail decision to be made based on two factors, neither of which is sufficient to warrant remand in this case.
 
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