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'UN drafting ceasefire plan that would reinstate PA in Gaza'

Tashah

Tashah

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'UN drafting ceasefire plan that would reinstate PA in Gaza'
Jan 10, 2009

A day after the United Nations Security Council resolution calling for a ceasefire was dismissed by both Israel and the Hamas rulers of Gaza, a new plan was being hatched to reinstitute the Palestinian Authority on the Gaza-Egypt border, according to a report in a British paper.

The Times reported on Saturday morning the UN diplomats were drawing up a plan to bring in international monitors to police the border crossing which has been a porous entryway for weapons and other smuggled goods until Israel's Operation Cast Lead was begun 15 days ago.

According to the new plan, a triangle at the southern end of Gaza, including the Rafah crossing to Egypt and the Kerem Shalom crossing to Israel, would be policed by Turkish and French military monitors to stop arms smuggling into Gaza, while the Strip itself would return to the jurisdiction of the Palestinian Authority.
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Source: Jerusalem Post

I must say, the UN never ceases to amaze me.
 
Let’s first hear Abbas unambiguously condemn the Aqsa Brigades and purge them from Fatah. Let’s hear Abbas loudly assert that all suicide bombings and other attacks intentionally targeting civilians are unacceptable. Let’s hear Abbas acknowledge that a peaceful settlement cannot realistically include a right of return.

How hard can that be for a “moderate”?
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Not One Thin Dime for Abbas by Andrew C. McCarthy on National Review Online
 
Any such proposal will go over like a lead balloon among those who hold Gazans prisoner. Hamas will never accept it. They won't even accept international troops at the border to enforce the provisions of a cease fire. If that doesn't tell people who really doesn't want peace, I would have to say that there is no hope for them.
 
The UN, what a joke.
 
ludahai said:
Any such proposal will go over like a lead balloon among those who hold Gazans prisoner. Hamas will never accept it. They won't even accept international troops at the border to enforce the provisions of a cease fire. If that doesn't tell people who really doesn't want peace, I would have to say that there is no hope for them.
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We all must realize that the Palestinians can stop the violence any time they want. They can have freedom any time they want.

Just recognize Israel's right to exist and the rest can be worked out.
 
If that doesn't tell people who really doesn't want peace, I would have to say that there is no hope for them.
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Both Israel and Hamas rejected the ceasefire proposal.
 
I accept the ceasefire proposal on behalf of Israel and Hamas.
They would probably do a better job selling girl-scout cookies in various symbols of "peace". But if they screw with my thin mints.... oh god..I can't even think about it :eek:
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Both Israel and Hamas rejected the ceasefire proposal.
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Israel rejected it because it does not meet the minimum requirements they stand for and also because Hamas has said that they won't accept it. It doesn't not call for a unilateral cease fire.
 
ludahai said:
Israel rejected it because it does not meet the minimum requirements they stand for and also because Hamas has said that they won't accept it. It doesn't not call for a unilateral cease fire.
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Hamas wants the blockade to end.

Israel should just end it. It has nothing to do with any negotiations. What Israel is doing is a war crime. There is nothing Hamas has done that gives Israel the right to starve Gazan children.
 
Billo_Really said:
Hamas wants the blockade to end.

Israel should just end it. It has nothing to do with any negotiations. What Israel is doing is a war crime. There is nothing Hamas has done that gives Israel the right to starve Gazan children.
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What will bring ultimate peace and freedom and prosperity for the Palestinians, Billo?

Clue: It's nothing the Israelis must do first.
 
bhkad said:
We all must realize that the Palestinians can stop the violence any time they want. They can have freedom any time they want.

Just recognize Israel's right to exist and the rest can be worked out.
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Israel should just settle for the rockets to stop. **** this **** about recognizing Israel! Israel doesn't recognize the Palestinian's right to be left alone without interference. Israel doesn't recognize international law. And after turning Gaza into a virtual prison, Israel doesn't recognize humanity. Because you cannot collectively punish 1.5 million people over the actions of a few.
 
Billo_Really said:
Hamas wants the blockade to end.

Israel should just end it. It has nothing to do with any negotiations. What Israel is doing is a war crime. There is nothing Hamas has done that gives Israel the right to starve Gazan children.
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Except smuggling in weapons that are to be used against Israel.
 
Billo_Really said:
Israel should just settle for the rockets to stop. **** this **** about recognizing Israel! Israel doesn't recognize the Palestinian's right to be left alone without interference. Israel doesn't recognize international law. And after turning Gaza into a virtual prison, Israel doesn't recognize humanity. Because you cannot collectively punish 1.5 million people over the actions of a few.
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So, we should have just left Germany alone in WWII and not take out the Nazis for fear of collective punishment? That is a stupid argument and only valid in the wet dreams of liberals and leftists who think the world is a nice place. Well sorry, things may be nice in Western Europe and North America, but things aren't so nice and clean in most of the rest of the world. There is conflict - there is war - there is injustice. Governments must protect themselves, the sovereignty of the state they government, and their citizens that they are responsible for, and if that requires war, than so be it.

The Palestinians were offerred peace and a state a decade ago. Arafat REFUSED the offer. Israel lifted the blockade. What did the illegitimate Hamas government do? Smuggled in weapons for use against Israel. While I feel for the people of Gaza, I really do, the government of Israel has the right and responsibility to protect their citizens and their sovereignty.

Hamas has repeatedly stated that they would not allow international troops to enforce any cease fire agreement whilst Israel said that they will be welcomed. That, more than anything else, should tell you who truly wants peace in the region.
 
Billo_Really said:
Israel should just settle for the rockets to stop. **** this **** about recognizing Israel! Israel doesn't recognize the Palestinian's right to be left alone without interference. Israel doesn't recognize international law. And after turning Gaza into a virtual prison, Israel doesn't recognize humanity. Because you cannot collectively punish 1.5 million people over the actions of a few.
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You are beyond reason.
 
ludahai said:
Except smuggling in weapons that are to be used against Israel.
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That gives them the right to punish 1.5 million people? The majority of which have committed no crimes and have done nothing to Israel. So "smugling weapons" makes it okay to punish innocent people. Is that what you are saying?
 
bhkad said:
You are beyond reason.
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I think I'm right on the money.

How can you say Israel has the right to punish innocent men, women and children?

And how can you say they are not starving Gazan children when non-political, relief organizations around the world, say this blockade has created a humanitarian crisis.

So why is it beyond reason for me to state that what Israel is doing is collective punishment, and that is a war crime?
 
Billo_Really said:
That gives them the right to punish 1.5 million people? The majority of which have committed no crimes and have done nothing to Israel. So "smugling weapons" makes it okay to punish innocent people. Is that what you are saying?
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The Article 51 right and the right inherent in sovereignty to self-defense.
 
Billo_Really said:
I think I'm right on the money.

How can you say Israel has the right to punish innocent men, women and children?

And how can you say they are not starving Gazan children when non-political, relief organizations around the world, say this blockade has created a humanitarian crisis.

So why is it beyond reason for me to state that what Israel is doing is collective punishment, and that is a war crime?
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Any war situation punishes innocent people. I suppose the western countries should have just ignored German invasions, right? I mean, getting those Nazis required the killing of an awful lot of people.

Oh, we should have allowed Saddam to keep Kuwait, because driving him out would have caused innocent people to die.

We should never have sanctioned the invasion of Afghanistan because we may hurt some innocent people on the way.

ABSURD!!!
 
ludahai said:
So, we should have just left Germany alone in WWII and not take out the Nazis for fear of collective punishment? That is a stupid argument and only valid in the wet dreams of liberals and leftists who think the world is a nice place. Well sorry, things may be nice in Western Europe and North America, but things aren't so nice and clean in most of the rest of the world. There is conflict - there is war - there is injustice. Governments must protect themselves, the sovereignty of the state they government, and their citizens that they are responsible for, and if that requires war, than so be it.

The Palestinians were offerred peace and a state a decade ago. Arafat REFUSED the offer. Israel lifted the blockade. What did the illegitimate Hamas government do? Smuggled in weapons for use against Israel. While I feel for the people of Gaza, I really do, the government of Israel has the right and responsibility to protect their citizens and their sovereignty.

Hamas has repeatedly stated that they would not allow international troops to enforce any cease fire agreement whilst Israel said that they will be welcomed. That, more than anything else, should tell you who truly wants peace in the region.
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How is starving children protecting Israeli sovereignty? It's not like these rockets are ICBM's or even Scud's. They're home made bombs that have killed 15 people in 8 years. That's hardly a threat to Israeli sovereignty.

And they did not lift the blockade! You can't say the blockade was lifted when you allow 90 trucks instead of 70, when they need 700!
 
ludahai said:
Any war situation punishes innocent people. I suppose the western countries should have just ignored German invasions, right? I mean, getting those Nazis required the killing of an awful lot of people.

Oh, we should have allowed Saddam to keep Kuwait, because driving him out would have caused innocent people to die.

We should never have sanctioned the invasion of Afghanistan because we may hurt some innocent people on the way.

ABSURD!!!
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But we're gonna ignore Israel's invasion and their nazi-esque brutality in Gaza. That invasion, were okay with. You should listen to what your saying. You cannot collectively punish the civilian population in an area of conflict. That is a war crime. This is not a debatable issue.
 
Billo_Really said:
How is starving children protecting Israeli sovereignty? It's not like these rockets are ICBM's or even Scud's. They're home made bombs that have killed 15 people in 8 years. That's hardly a threat to Israeli sovereignty.

And they did not lift the blockade! You can't say the blockade was lifted when you allow 90 trucks instead of 70, when they need 700!
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The sending of rockets into Israel from Gaza is an act of war. If it even injures ONE person, Israel has the right to react. You are defending the right of Hamas to send rockets across the border with impunity?

I was referring to the previous opening of the border, not the temporary one that just recently happened.

As for UNSC Resolution 1860, it falls far short and actually indicates a cease fire should be accomplished PRIOR to a full Israeli withdrawal from Gaza.

UNSC Resolution 1860 - Operative Clause 1 said:
1. Stresses the urgency of and calls for an immediate, durable and fully respected cease fire, leading to the full withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza;
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The meaning is pretty clear. The onus is on Hamas to accept the resolution, which they have said that they REFUSE to do because they were not consulted. Israel has no obligation to unilaterally cease fire nor do they have an obligation to withdraw their troops until a cease fire is effectuated.

Operative clause five also calls for the ceasing of all illicit shipments of arms into Gaza.

read the resolution
 
What is shooting at UN relief trucks have to do with Israeli sovereignty?
Thursday, January 08, 2009
UN Halts Relief Work in Gaza; Driver Killed by Israeli Fire;
Starvation Looms for Civilians

The UN is halting its relief works in Gaza, after an Israeli tank fired on a UN truck, killing the driver:


' "The IDF knows all of our movements, and coordinates. Despite that we are still coming under attack," says Chris Gunness, a spokesman for the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA). "Until the [Israeli Defense Forces] can guarantee the safety and security of our staff, everything is suspended."'


It is hard not to suspect that the Israeli army doesn't actually want the aid workers in Gaza (they have already excluded reporters) because of what the workers find when they look into the rubble of buildings the army has hit. AP writes:
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Go ahead, I can't wait. There is nothing Israel can do that any one of you apologists would object too. They could burn 6 million muslims in ovens and you'd find some reason why it was necessary.
 
Billo_Really said:
What is shooting at UN relief trucks have to do with Israeli sovereignty?
Go ahead, I can't wait. There is nothing Israel can do that any one of you apologists would object too. They could burn 6 million muslims in ovens and you'd find some reason why it was necessary.
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It is a freaking WAR ZONE. Do you have ONE SHREAD of evidence that it was intentional? Heck, sometimes troops eve fire at their own. I am sure that is intentional too.
 
Billo_Really said:
I think I'm right on the money.

How can you say Israel has the right to punish innocent men, women and children?
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The innocent men, women and children are used the way Israel uses tanks and they have more power than any one tank.

Destroy a tank = *Yawn*

Accidentally kill an innocent = HEADLINE NEWS + CRIES OF BRUTALITY + PROTESTS

The Palestinians are killing their innocents to strike a blow at your conscience. They are manipulating you and you are bending over and allowing them to do it.
 
ludahai said:
The sending of rockets into Israel from Gaza is an act of war. If it even injures ONE person, Israel has the right to react. You are defending the right of Hamas to send rockets across the border with impunity?
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I'm not saying that at all. Where did I say those rockets were okay? Show me the post where I said that?
ludahai said:
I was referring to the previous opening of the border, not the temporary one that just recently happened.
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The blockade has been going on for 18 months. Ever since Hamas was elected.

ludahai said:
As for UNSC Resolution 1860, it falls far short and actually indicates a cease fire should be accomplished PRIOR to a full Israeli withdrawal from Gaza.
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I don't care if Israel stays or goes from Gaza. The just can't target civilian infrastructure that is not part of the hostilities.
ludahai said:
The meaning is pretty clear. The onus is on Hamas to accept the resolution, which they have said that they REFUSE to do because they were not consulted. Israel has no obligation to unilaterally cease fire nor do they have an obligation to withdraw their troops until a cease fire is effectuated.
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Israel refused to lift the blockade, that's why they said no. They shouldn't even have to say no. The blockade is illegal.
ludahai said:
Operative clause five also calls for the ceasing of all illicit shipments of arms into Gaza.
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There are no arms in Gaza that threaten Israeli security. 15 dead in 8 years is not a threat to the IDF.
 
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