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Thread: Commissioning of carrier George H.W. Bush to be held tomorrow

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    Re: Commissioning of carrier George H.W. Bush to be held tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Love the presidents? Sorry but I've seen just as much contempt from conservative assholes regarding Clinton, so spare me you statement.

    Many conservatives on this forum have done nothing but shown disrespect for Clinton without your intervention of asking them otherwise so spare me. Where is your statements asking conservatives to show their respect for the previous president Clinton?

    We'll see about how much love you have for Obama. Your statements will be watched.
    Which is on the topic of an aircraft carrier and it's strategic placement...how?

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    Re: Commissioning of carrier George H.W. Bush to be held tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Which is on the topic of an aircraft carrier and it's strategic placement...how?
    It's placement is clear, it is partisan. That is the point, whether you can't see it or not is irrelevant.

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    Re: Commissioning of carrier George H.W. Bush to be held tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    It's placement is clear, it is partisan. That is the point, whether you can't see it or not is irrelevant.
    Then please, by all means, make your case for such. Otherwise, you are just ranting off-topic. Again.

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    Re: Commissioning of carrier George H.W. Bush to be held tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Huh?

    Having the same home port as many other ships isn't what you think it is. For the vast majority of the time, US naval assets are not in dock. Furthermore, many US ships go to a relatively few docks for major overhauls. We frankly don't have many ports that can handle carrier refits. So this problem exists whether or not a ship is home ported in a busy port.

    So while the Navy is correct about security in some regards, their proposal would increase costs. Instead of providing security for a large number of centralized berths, we'd have to spend far more to secure a large number of berths spread out. Given how little time ships spend in port anyways relative to their operational lifetimes, it doesn't seem cost effective.

    Mayport Florida can't even do an overhaul and that is primarily where a carrier sits in dock for a long period of time.
    I read the post before I saw who wrote it.

    I'm pleasantly surprised, OC.

    You make some good points.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Commissioning of carrier George H.W. Bush to be held tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    It's placement is clear, it is partisan. That is the point, whether you can't see it or not is irrelevant.
    Why not start a thread of your own instead of shytting up this one, eh?

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Commissioning of carrier George H.W. Bush to be held tomorrow

    Moderator's Warning:
    Commissioning of carrier George H.W. Bush to be held tomorrowThat will be enough personal attacks, vulgar language, and pointless partisan bickering for one thread.

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    Re: Commissioning of carrier George H.W. Bush to be held tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    I read the post before I saw who wrote it.

    I'm pleasantly surprised, OC.

    You make some good points.
    I know far more then I let on. As much as we like to pretend we're not vulnerable, the US Navy is reliant upon a relatively few ports. While repairs can be done at bases in the Middle East, Yokosuka, Guam and Pearl (with the exception of subs who can have major overhauls done there), major repairs are almost ALWAYS done at San Diego, Norfolk and a few others. I remember some carriers being unavailable for operations because they were spending 6~9 months at Norfolk undergoing routine overhauls. That's an extremely long time. Generally ships pull into port, switch crews, get supplies and stay for maybe a week or two tops. Then they go back to "work." The whole notion that centralized home porting is a serious problem is ignorant to how our Navy maintains it ships. Go Google Earth Norfolk. That base is massive for a reason.

    The only time a ship spends significant times in dock is during an overhaul, refit or major upgrade. And that is generally always done in one of a handful of ports.

    The only real way around this is to spend exorbitant amounts of money building naval bases capable of major refits but that will see relatively little work. That's not cost effective and when you realize the only way we're going to get really shafted under our current system is with nuclear weapons. But if the world comes to that, having guided missile frigates and carriers is all rather moot when missiles carrying 200 kt warheads are being used and ICBMs are flying every which way.

    What we should do is upgrade Pearl Harbor so it can handle major carrier refits. The time savings there would be immense. Not having to steam all the way to San Diego is week or more of time savings, two when you have to come back. I really doubt the Japanese are going to let us idle a nuclear powered carrier in their harbors for half a year.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Commissioning of carrier George H.W. Bush to be held tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I know far more then I let on. As much as we like to pretend we're not vulnerable, the US Navy is reliant upon a relatively few ports. While repairs can be done at bases in the Middle East, Yokosuka, Guam and Pearl (with the exception of subs who can have major overhauls done there), major repairs are almost ALWAYS done at San Diego, Norfolk and a few others. I remember some carriers being unavailable for operations because they were spending 6~9 months at Norfolk undergoing routine overhauls. That's an extremely long time. Generally ships pull into port, switch crews, get supplies and stay for maybe a week or two tops. Then they go back to "work." The whole notion that centralized home porting is a serious problem is ignorant to how our Navy maintains it ships. Go Google Earth Norfolk. That base is massive for a reason.

    The only time a ship spends significant times in dock is during an overhaul, refit or major upgrade. And that is generally always done in one of a handful of ports.

    The only real way around this is to spend exorbitant amounts of money building naval bases capable of major refits but that will see relatively little work. That's not cost effective and when you realize the only way we're going to get really shafted under our current system is with nuclear weapons. But if the world comes to that, having guided missile frigates and carriers is all rather moot when missiles carrying 200 kt warheads are being used and ICBMs are flying every which way.

    What we should do is upgrade Pearl Harbor so it can handle major carrier refits. The time savings there would be immense. Not having to steam all the way to San Diego is week or more of time savings, two when you have to come back. I really doubt the Japanese are going to let us idle a nuclear powered carrier in their harbors for half a year.
    I have nothing to say. You have demonstrated superior knowledge of the subject. I'll leave it to others to respond. Except for this: a major terrorist attack on Norfolk would cripple the fleet that is in port.

    Remember, every attack is unexpected and is made despite the seeming imperviousness of the target.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Commissioning of carrier George H.W. Bush to be held tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I don't see how legislators think they have the right or the knowledge to override military command when it comes to placement of our forces.
    Guys, I could have answered this one for you all easily. Despite ships being at sea for most of their time, the ports are still huge and make alot of jobs. The bigger the port the more jobs. The more a senators looks like he's "fighting" to keep those ports in his state/district the more of those jobholders will vote for him.

    Same stuff happens in my old hometown in Corpus Christi at the Naval Air Station. Local congressmen kept it on life support for ages and people keep voting for that idiots.
    Freedom is... never more than one generation away from extinction. Every generation has to learn how to protect and defend it, or itís gone and gone for a long, long time- Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Commissioning of carrier George H.W. Bush to be held tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    major terrorist attack on Norfolk would cripple the fleet that is in port.
    That can be said for any major base. A nuclear suicide attack on Kadena would cripple that base and we have a large amount of Air Force assets there. This problem is actually a bigger threat for air force and Army then it is for the navy as the Navy rarely has lots of assets in any port at any one time, unlike the Air Force or land based units which don't have the advantage of being able to sit out in the middle of the ocean for weeks at a time (or months if you're a sub). Imagine a suicide nuclear attack on Fort Hood. That would be much worse. We can deal with a relative few ship losses (don't forget under overhauls ships generally don't have full crews). Having thousands upon thousands of soldiers vaporized is something entirely different. 65,000 soldiers and their families are stationed there. The super base model we're going to presents some serious inherent threats for different branches of the military.

    Luckily the Navy realizes the inherent threat of lots of ships in one harbor at any one time. I've never heard of more then one or two carriers being worked on extensively at any one port at any time. Apparently we still abide to the lessons of 12/7/1941.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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