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Thread: Jan. 1 Attack By CIA Killed Two Leaders Of Al-Qaeda

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    Re: Jan. 1 Attack By CIA Killed Two Leaders Of Al-Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    And I agree with you on this. Witness all of the "if you ain't a terrorist you got nothin' to hide" mentality of those defending parts of the Patriot Act and chastising those who opposed it.
    I hate that mentality, it angers me like nothing else can.
    Im not a terrorist, but if someone thinks because i disagree with foreign policy i am now somehow a secret jihadist then **** 'em.
    I always always get on a defensive with any of my American friends on this.
    Bush's "you are with us or against us"
    Well, im most certainley not with you but im not against you either. Take your pick.

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    Re: Jan. 1 Attack By CIA Killed Two Leaders Of Al-Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    That's right, because we stopped them.
    We have done a very good job of disrupting them, but we have in no way "stopped them." They are still quite active.

    Not saying you specifically think this way American, but I cannot understand the mentality of those who think that only attacks on U.S. soil count. We have interests all over the world, we have citizens all over the world. We have not "stopped them" so much as we have temporarily interrupted their ability to hit us on U.S. home turf. And this is a good thing, but far from any end game.
    Last edited by Lerxst; 01-10-09 at 07:11 PM.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Jan. 1 Attack By CIA Killed Two Leaders Of Al-Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I hate that mentality, it angers me like nothing else can.
    That makes at least two of us.
    Well, im most certainley not with you but im not against you either.
    This is a mindset that will make heads explode on the extreme right.

    Unlike some on here I believe that international opinion of the U.S. is critical and thus I can appreciate your position on this. However many on here take an almost xenophobic approach to foreign input when it comes to U.S. foreign policy...which is so odd because here we are pushing our agenda, which is foreign to those outside the U.S., yet as a matter of culture we expect them to just take it.

    It's almost juvenile.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Jan. 1 Attack By CIA Killed Two Leaders Of Al-Qaeda

    Thanks for twisting things again, good job.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Jan. 1 Attack By CIA Killed Two Leaders Of Al-Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Thanks for twisting things again, good job.
    I didn't try to twist anything. Sometimes less is not more. Your statement, given the extent of this discussion, leaves much to wonder.

    Edit: I'll take responsibility for not putting a break in the commentary, it looks as though I have put words in your mouth. Please accept my apology, I edited my post to read better.
    Last edited by Lerxst; 01-10-09 at 07:13 PM. Reason: Clarification of point.
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    Re: Jan. 1 Attack By CIA Killed Two Leaders Of Al-Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    That makes at least two of us.

    This is a mindset that will make heads explode on the extreme right.

    Unlike some on here I believe that international opinion of the U.S. is critical and thus I can appreciate your position on this. However many on here take an almost xenophobic approach to foreign input when it comes to U.S. foreign policy...which is so odd because here we are pushing our agenda, which is foreign to those outside the U.S., yet as a matter of culture we expect them to just take it.

    It's almost juvenile.
    Well the right had Bush so i don't think they have a leg to stand on to criticise me.

    Its ridiculous isn't it?
    Westerners almost expect countries to be grateful, they have democracy and they think its wonderful so now they want other countries to have it. Its almost as if democracy is the only way as they are superior.
    Americans wouldn't have accepted someone introducing a completley new system of Government after toppling the first one yet we expected to have people open their arms to us as "liberators"
    It was amusing to say the least =D

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    Re: Jan. 1 Attack By CIA Killed Two Leaders Of Al-Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Westerners almost expect countries to be grateful, they have democracy and they think its wonderful so now they want other countries to have it. Its almost as if democracy is the only way as they are superior.
    I think the failure to connect was our idea that our Western flavor of democracy would work in the Mid East. Again, that whole disregard for the geopolitical environment thing.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Jan. 1 Attack By CIA Killed Two Leaders Of Al-Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I think the failure to connect was our idea that our Western flavor of democracy would work in the Mid East. Again, that whole disregard for the geopolitical environment thing.
    For Democracy to work in the Middle East or indeed the Islamic world
    Secularism or at least a lessening of Islam needs to occur.
    In cases, if democracy is given to Muslims by force. They will not respect it or treasure it and more than likely introduce a Anti-west radical Government. Does the West then acknowledge this democratic procedure or do as it did before in Hamas's case disregard it?

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    Re: Jan. 1 Attack By CIA Killed Two Leaders Of Al-Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    For Democracy to work in the Middle East or indeed the Islamic world
    Secularism or at least a lessening of Islam needs to occur.
    I think I agree with you on this, assuming that by "lessening" you mean a shift to a more moderate, tolerant attitude within Islam needs to occur. And I would wholeheartedly agree.

    In cases, if democracy is given to Muslims by force. They will not respect it or treasure it and more than likely introduce a Anti-west radical Government.
    We have seen this happen already in Iraq. The religious influence in politics, at least to the extent that Islam influences politics, is difficult for most Westerners, especially Americans, to grasp. We view religious influence in politics as a little more than "politics as usual" by the conservative right. More of a social moral stance than anything. But we just don't seem to recognize that our model of democracy simply will not work in a Muslim culture. We have to allow for direct theological influence because that's what most people want. Now do they want it to the extent that the Guardian Council pushes in Iran? No, I highly doubt it. But they aren't going to abandon their religion because democracy comes to town.

    It will take a moderate shift within Islam to make a difference most westerners can recognize.

    Does the West then acknowledge this democratic procedure or do as it did before in Hamas's case disregard it?
    I can't really answer that question. Hamas was already recognized as an armed terrorist organization by the west previous to the election. I think it's pretty well unprecedented in terms of it's situational relevance to both the west and mid-east.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Jan. 1 Attack By CIA Killed Two Leaders Of Al-Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Not impossible.

    We do it in a similar as we handled the Nazi's but in a 21st century manner. Keep thumping them every time they turn around.

    It's either them or us.

    I hope the Israeli's keep pounding the Palestinians. I hope they keep at this for months. Hamas sends in one rocket, Israel stuffs 30 into the place it came from. If there is a school, mosque or hospital in the vicinity... tough darts.

    You asked for it, you'll get it... in spades. That has to be the message. Zero tolerance.
    ZIMMER: In college I sat down with some PLO in a school in Dayton Ohio. I wanted to get some answers,and they gave freely. None of their answers however cover repeatedly fireing missiles into Israel. Your 1:30 ratio seems very appropriate. I am unaware of any terrorist factions from Israel blowing up innocent anyones anywhere.

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