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Thread: Obama camp 'prepared to talk to Hamas'

  1. #241
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    Re: Obama camp 'prepared to talk to Hamas'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    OK. I'd like for that to happen.

    But what can Hamas be given that will satisfy it, considering it specifically exists to destroy Israel?
    Well, first, you must get them to cut that **** out. Tell them no agreement can be reached until they publically admit Israel has a fundamental right to existance. That would be the primary condition needed to be met in order to move forward.

    Make that clear to them, and then start negotiations AFTER that condition has been laid out. they get not being bombed as their incentive for that condition.
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    Re: Obama camp 'prepared to talk to Hamas'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    OK. I'd like for that to happen.

    But what can Hamas be given that will satisfy it,
    Israel and the pragmatists within Hamas can negotiate for an end to the blockade, assurances that Israel will never overthrow Hamas in Gaza or assist Fatah in doing so, control over the borders to Gaza, and the release of some low-level Hamas prisoners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw
    considering it specifically exists to destroy Israel?
    That is incorrect. Hamas is partially a political party, partially a charitable social services organization, and partially a terrorist group. It has other purposes besides the destruction of Israel, and there are many members within Hamas who are willing to jettison that goal under the right circumstances.
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  3. #243
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    Re: Obama camp 'prepared to talk to Hamas'

    My apologies to Jmak and Harshaw, etc, if I got a little heated and disrespectful during this discussion.
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    Re: Obama camp 'prepared to talk to Hamas'

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Well, first, you must get them to cut that **** out. Tell them no agreement can be reached until they publically admit Israel has a fundamental right to existance. That would be the primary condition needed to be met in order to move forward.

    Make that clear to them, and then start negotiations AFTER that condition has been laid out. they get not being bombed as their incentive for that condition.
    OK. How are you going to do that? What can you offer them?

    This isn't rhetorical. What do you do?
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  5. #245
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    Re: Obama camp 'prepared to talk to Hamas'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    OK. How are you going to do that? What can you offer them?

    This isn't rhetorical. What do you do?
    It's just a starting point, really. An complete end to the blockade would be of primacy form their perspective.

    I agree with Kandahar that there are less militant members that may be willing to talk and jettison the failed mentalities of the past.
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    Re: Obama camp 'prepared to talk to Hamas'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Israel and the pragmatists within Hamas can negotiate for an end to the blockade, assurances that Israel will never overthrow Hamas in Gaza or assist Fatah in doing so, control over the borders to Gaza, and the release of some low-level Hamas prisoners.

    That is incorrect. Hamas is partially a political party, partially a charitable social services organization, and partially a terrorist group. It has other purposes besides the destruction of Israel, and there are many members within Hamas who are willing to jettison that goal under the right circumstances.
    It does other incidental things, but its central purpose is the destruction of Israel.

    Having observed this situation for several decades now, it's pretty hard not to come to the conclusion that the only satisfactory result from "Palestinian" side of things will be the end of Israel. As long as Israel exists, this conflict will continue.

    The only thing Israel can give which will "work" is its own suicide.

    Much of the rest of the world seems to be pretty OK with that. Should we be? If not, what should we do?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  7. #247
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    Re: Obama camp 'prepared to talk to Hamas'

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    The "I don't like you so I'm going to call you bad names and not going to talk to you" foreign policy of the Bush administration didn't produce great results.
    But that hasn't been the Bush policy; its the make believe world of Liberals who have no use for the truth and wallow in lies, distortions, innuendo and hyperbole.

    Here's a clue for you; who was the FIRST President to come out and publicly support the creation of a Palestinian nation?

    The idea that the Bush administration has done what you suggest is more of your absurd hyperbole and partisan Bush bashing rhetoric and has no place in honest debate.

    You are; of course, free to prove me wrong by providing links to your "stated" Bush policy.

    Carry on.

  8. #248
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    Re: Obama camp 'prepared to talk to Hamas'

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    Got a peace agreement between Israel and Jordon in 1993.
    This is trite and laughable; Clinton failed to get the Palestinians and Israeli's to sign a peace agreement, he failed to take the threat of Osama Bin Laden seriously, he failed to bring peace to Bosnia-Herzegovina, he failed to stop Korea's nuclear program although he thought he had, he refused to take Saddam's refusal to cooperate with the UN weapons inspectors even kicking them out of Iraq, he failed miserably in Somalia, and you want present his Middle East efforts as being successful?

    Foreign policy of the Clinton Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    As for the agreement between Israel and Jordan to "normalize" relations, how BIG of a threat was Jordan to Israel? Jordan was already moderate and this agreement was merely "coordinated" by the US, not negotiated. What does Jordan's recognition of Israel have to do with the Palestinian problem between them and the Jewish State?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    What's Bush accomplished. Other than starting the wrong war by mistake, I mean.
    What does the removal of the Taliban from Afghanistan and enforcement of UN resolutions against the dictator Saddam Hussein have to do with the Palestinians and Israeli's agreeing to peace?

    What has ANY President accomplished to bring an end to the bloodshed between the Jews and Arabs?

    The answer is obvious to all who are not wallowing in denial; it is NOTHING.

    Bush is the FIRST President to publicly announce his support of the creation of an independent Palestinian State.

    Now here's the trick question; why did this fail?

    Bush backs Palestinian state

    Last Updated: 9:08PM BST 24 Jun 2002

    President George W. Bush said tonight the United States supports creation of a provisional Palestinian state but only if a "new and different Palestinian leadership" is found other than Yasser Arafat.

    "When the Palestinian people have new leaders, new institutions, and new security arrangements with their neighbors, the United States of America will support the creation of a Palestinian state," Bush said in a long-awaited and delayed statement of his Middle East policy, given even as violence wracked the region.

    Bush backs Palestinian state - Telegraph


    ANNAPOLIS, Nov 27: US President George W. Bush announced on Tuesday that Israel and the Palestinians had agreed to a joint document that might ultimately lead to the creation of a Palestinian state and hoped that the two sides will be able to reach a peace treaty before the end of next year.

    “We meet to lay the foundations for the establishment of a new nation, a democratic Palestinian state that will live side by side with Israel in peace and security,” Mr Bush said at a news conference in Annapolis, near Washington.

    At the opening ceremony, Mr Bush stood at a lectern with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on his right and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on his left.

    After Mr Bush read the joint statement signed by two sides, Mr Olmert and Mr Abbas reached across the lectern and clasped hands in front of the US leader, then took their seats. Later, the two leaders also embraced each other.

    Bush sees Palestinian state next year -DAWN - Top Stories; November 28, 2007

    Bush's big Mideast mistake

    Posted: May 01, 2002
    1:00 am Eastern

    By Joseph Farah
    © 2009 WorldNetDaily.com

    On Oct. 2, 2001, just 21 days after America was attacked by Islamic terrorists long allied with Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Liberation Organization, President Bush went further than any president before him in calling for the creation of a Palestinian state.

    Bush's big Mideast mistake

  9. #249
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    Re: Obama camp 'prepared to talk to Hamas'

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Obama shouldn't even get involved, let Hamas and Israel kill each other.
    And this is why Ron Paul will NEVER be elected President of the United States.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #250
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    Re: Obama camp 'prepared to talk to Hamas'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    It does other incidental things, but its central purpose is the destruction of Israel.
    Hamas has many members - at all levels of the organization - who aren't particularly interested in destroying Israel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw
    Having observed this situation for several decades now, it's pretty hard not to come to the conclusion that the only satisfactory result from "Palestinian" side of things will be the end of Israel. As long as Israel exists, this conflict will continue.
    There are certainly some extremists who will never accept Israel, but they can be marginalized by negotiating with the pragmatists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw
    The only thing Israel can give which will "work" is its own suicide.

    Much of the rest of the world seems to be pretty OK with that. Should we be? If not, what should we do?
    Like I said, Israel has plenty of bargaining chips: The blockade, the border crossings, the Hamas prisoners, an assurance that they won't overthrow Hamas in Gaza, etc.
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