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New report re-uses old data to target abstinence pledges {EDIT}

Phoenix

Phoenix

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News Headlines - New report re-uses old data to target abstinence pledges : Townhall.com

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--Another new look at old data has caused a stir in the national media, and abstinence pledges are taking another hit just as Congress and the new Obama administration are reconsidering millions of dollars in funding for abstinence education programs.

The latest report, appearing in the January issue of the journal Pediatrics, examined 934 teenagers with strong religious backgrounds, 289 of whom took abstinence pledges and 645 who did not. Based on this within-group comparison, the study found that teenagers who took a pledge were just as likely to have premarital sex as those who did not take a pledge; and those who took pledges were less likely to use contraceptives.

However, the study only compared the behavior of strongly religious teenagers to other strongly religious teenagers and made no comparison of this group to teenagers with little or no religious influence in their lives. In other words, the study only looked at how "elites" of a population compared to other "elites" and did not examine this sample's behavior for differences and similarities with the general population of all teens.
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It seems the study compared a group of religious teens that took the pledge to religious teens that didn't. Religious teens from religious families have been found to have less premarital sex than other teens.

To the ones using this study to justify Sex ed training in schools...You've been duped.
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

Phoenix said:
News Headlines - New report re-uses old data to target abstinence pledges : Townhall.com



It seems the study compared a group of religious teens that took the pledge to religious teens that didn't. Religious teens from religious families have been found to have less premarital sex than other teens.

To the ones using this study to justify Sex ed training in schools...You've been duped.
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yay! I'm a good statistic! :mrgreen:
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

Phoenix said:
It seems the study compared a group of religious teens that took the pledge to religious teens that didn't.
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That's the whole point. Otherwise you aren't measuring the effectiveness of the abstinence pledge, you're measuring the effectiveness of religious indoctrination. Comparing the pledgers to the population as a whole would be ridiculous and would prove nothing about the abstinence pledge, because teens who take the abstinence pledge in the first place are not representative of the population as a whole. The question that the study was answering was "Does taking an abstinence pledge cause/promote more abstinence?" And the answer was a definitive no.

Phoenix said:
Religious teens from religious families have been found to have less premarital sex than other teens.
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Well obviously. Who the hell waits until marriage if they AREN'T religious?

Phoenix said:
To the ones using this study to justify Sex ed training in schools...You've been duped.
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:confused:
I can't even begin to comprehend how you made that logical leap. Please explain.
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

I wonder what state has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the US... a red or a blue state.....
 
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Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

If abstinence pledges fail this horribly with the "elite" religious kids, who are typically taught premarital sex is a sin, why bother making it fail even more with kids who don't think God is going to send them to hell for a BJ?
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

Tucker Case said:
If abstinence pledges fail this horribly with the "elite" religious kids, who are typically taught premarital sex is a sin, why bother making it fail even more with kids who don't think God is going to send them to hell for a BJ?
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Did you not read the link above.. its the blacks and Hispanics fault that the stats from the "red" religious states are high.... :roll:

Abstinence is a bullcrap idea, brought on by religious fanatics who use it to control women.
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

Kandahar said:
That's the whole point. Otherwise you aren't measuring the effectiveness of the abstinence pledge, you're measuring the effectiveness of religious indoctrination. Comparing the pledgers to the population as a whole would be ridiculous and would prove nothing about the abstinence pledge, because teens who take the abstinence pledge in the first place are not representative of the population as a whole. The question that the study was answering was "Does taking an abstinence pledge cause/promote more abstinence?" And the answer was a definitive no.
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If a group has already been taught that abstinence is the proper way to handle their relationships, they may not feel the need to "pledge" it because it's just the way it is. Why pledge not to do something that you are already not going to do?
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

Phoenix said:
News Headlines - New report re-uses old data to target abstinence pledges : Townhall.com



It seems the study compared a group of religious teens that took the pledge to religious teens that didn't. Religious teens from religious families have been found to have less premarital sex than other teens.

To the ones using this study to justify Sex ed training in schools...You've been duped.
Click to expand...

How do we know they were telling the truth?
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

Phoenix said:
If a group has already been taught that abstinence is the proper way to handle their relationships, they may not feel the need to "pledge" it because it's just the way it is. Why pledge not to do something that you are already not going to do?
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Exactly, that's the whole point. The abstinence pledge is ineffective and stupid. The people who sign up are from a subset of America that is arguably less likely to have sex in the first place, with or without the pledge. So what exactly is your point about the abstinence pledge?
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

Phoenix said:
News Headlines - New report re-uses old data to target abstinence pledges : Townhall.com



It seems the study compared a group of religious teens that took the pledge to religious teens that didn't. Religious teens from religious families have been found to have less premarital sex than other teens.

To the ones using this study to justify Sex ed training in schools...You've been duped.
Click to expand...

Here is a better study. Mississippi teens are the most impregnated in the United States. Nuff said.
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

PeteEU said:
I wonder what state has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the US... a red or a blue state.....
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Such a DISHONEST comment. which state has the highest teen abortion rate.

New Jersey has the highest teenage abortion rate of any state, surpassing even New York, according to a report released by a national organization that studies reproductive issues.

New Jersey recorded 47 abortions per 1,000 women ages 15 to 19, posting the highest statewide teenage abortion rate of any state for 2000, the latest time period for which state-by-state data were available.
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(I know it's freeper but the original link is now "dead" so if you can refute this, or bolster it, by all means.)
New Jersey, NJ, surpasses all states in teenage abortion rate

States ranked by rates of abortion among women age 15-19 (pregnancies per thousand):

New Jersey (47)
New York (46)
Maryland (38)
Nevada (36)
California (36)
Hawaii (34)
Florida (33)
Delaware (31)
Connecticut (30)
Illinois (27)
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Top Ten States with Highest Teenage Abortion Rates
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

PeteEU said:
Did you not read the link above.. its the blacks and Hispanics fault that the stats from the "red" religious states are high.... :roll:

Abstinence is a bullcrap idea, brought on by religious fanatics who use it to control women.
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and yet it has been practiced by countless cultures throughout the history of the mankind.
why is it all of a sudden bullcrap??
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

MrVicchio said:
Such a DISHONEST comment. which state has the highest teen abortion rate.


(I know it's freeper but the original link is now "dead" so if you can refute this, or bolster it, by all means.)
New Jersey, NJ, surpasses all states in teenage abortion rate

Top Ten States with Highest Teenage Abortion Rates
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I would say that it's only higher because abortion is more accessible in those states. I would expect comparable rates per capita in a more conservative state if restrictions were relaxed.
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

Abstinence pledges are a shining monument of the idiocy, and, even more so of the impossibility of Holy Roller Christian Dogma. We are such sinful, dirty creatures who need to be ashamed of ourselves. It's not enough that if you are born homosexual your desires are an abomination. If you are born human your desires are an abomination until you go through a magic ceremony. Oh, and the homosexuals aren't allowed to go through the ceremony, so they'll always be an abomination.
These poor kids born and raised in Chrisitanity. Taught that they are by their very nature dirty and shameful. Thinking that human nature is a sin. Thinking that dogma is morality. It's no wonder the world is in such a sad, sorry state.
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

DeeJayH said:
and yet it has been practiced by countless cultures throughout the history of the mankind.
why is it all of a sudden bullcrap??
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it is bullcrap because it is sending a message that sex is dirty and sinfull
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

DeeJayH said:
and yet it has been practiced by countless cultures throughout the history of the mankind.
why is it all of a sudden bullcrap??
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When has it not been bull crap? Education is a gift... We should continue giving it rather than demonizing the act of teaching kids what a condom does and how to use one successfully.
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

RightOfCenter said:
I would say that it's only higher because abortion is more accessible in those states. I would expect comparable rates per capita in a more conservative state if restrictions were relaxed.
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No, it's because.. GASP! Conservatives would rather a baby born then a baby killed. PREFER that children not have sex out of wedlock as well but we take what we can get.
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

danarhea said:
Here is a better study. Mississippi teens are the most impregnated in the United States. Nuff said.
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The states with the highest teen pregnancy rates used to be Texas and New Mexico, according to the CDC (the two were basically tied).
The CDC's latest statistics, just released, show that Mississippi has now surpassed these two states for top ranking (you know, Mississippi, that backward baptist state where it's so hard to obtain an abortion?)
New Mexico and Texas are now #2 and 3; other top contenders include such bastions of conservatism as Arkansas, Arizona, Oklahoma, Nevada, Tennessee, Kentucky and Georgia.

And no, it's not just about the mexican immigrants, legal or otherwise.
If it were, California would be listed too, but it's not, because *gasp!* California is blue, and high teen pregnancy rates are pretty much limited to red states.
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

Tucker Case said:
What does that have to do with anything?
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Has a lot to do with his own dishonesty, while he deflects the question by calling others dishonest. Once again, he who smelt it dealt it.
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

DeeJayH said:
and yet it has been practiced by countless cultures throughout the history of the mankind.
why is it all of a sudden bullcrap??
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It is bullcrap because it did not work then and it does not work now.

Girls got pregnant in the 1800s, 900s and forever outside marriage. It was a disgrace back then and the reality hidden from public... it was taboo.. but it did happen. Was the grip of fear by religious dogma much higher back then? Sure, and I dont deny that brainwashed people lived up to the abstinence bullcrap out of fear, but no matter what, girls did get pregnant, did have sex and so on. And that was when there was no safe forms of contraception...

but guess what.. Today we do have contraception, and premarital sex is no where near as taboo as it once (hell it is only 40+ years ago it was taboo really) was and the grip of religious fanatics has been weakened considerably. Only blind stupid and moronic people would deny the populace any and all methods to protect the health of people based on some warped religious dogma indoctrinated over the centuries.

Abstinence is and always has been, a way to control the female part of the populace... submit to the male dominated world view, and refute your own sexual urges till you get married..because it is good to be a virgin on your wedding night since then the man will know you are pure and free of sexual transmitted diseases. and now he owns you.....Christianity urges this, Islam urges this.. same crap to control women.
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

MrVicchio said:
No, it's because.. GASP! Conservatives would rather a baby born then a baby killed. PREFER that children not have sex out of wedlock as well but we take what we can get.
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Actually, while Conservatives don't believe in abortion, they take a position that it is up to the states to decide, and none of the Federal government's damn business, one way or the other.
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

Tucker Case said:
What does that have to do with anything?
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Its called deflecting away from the issue because you are either ashamed of the facts, and/or disagree with the facts... a classic right wing tactic used for the last many years..
 
Re: Abstinence Pledges Ineffective....OH wait....

emdash said:
mississippi
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not exactly. mississippi has the highest birth rate, not the highest pregnancy rate.

as of 2000, mississippi had the 3rd highest pregnancy rate, following nevada and arizona. at the time, mississippi had the 8th lowest abortion ratio (% of pregnancies that end in abortion vs birth. miscarriages excluded), meaning that the birth rate would be disproportionately high.
 
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