• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Protests over BART shooting turn violent

Yeah, PCP, sorry. He smoked wet before the incident.

I can't seem to find any confirmation on the amount of cops.

Anyway, they all got off, with some kind of reprimand. Which I guess I agree with. I think what they did was totally unreasonable and endangered public safety, purely through putting that much metal in the air. But I do think that guy was asking for a good shooting.

And I'm not sure that 10 cops standing in a circle around a down man unloading their glocks into him would mitigate much.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, PCP, sorry. He smoked wet before the incident.

I can't seem to find any confirmation on the amount of cops.

Anyway, they all got off, with some kind of reprimand. Which I guess I agree with. I think what they did was totally unreasonable and endangered public safety, purely through putting that much metal in the air. But I do think that guy was asking for a good shooting.

And I'm not sure that 10 cops standing in a circle around a down man unloading their glocks into him would mitigate much.




I would advise strongly against this tactic. Stupid hurts. :rofl
 
Actually I'm pretty sure that's happened with the 85 shots incident, I think there was in fact a friendly fire incident. Again this is all dependent on my memory of this happening months and months ago.

I think the problem here is high capacity magazines. Do police need 17 rounds (I don't think anyone actually leaves one in the chamber)? I think cops are barred from having assault weapons for pretty good reasons and what they're doing now is basically trying to get as close to an assault weapon as they can without actually having automatics. I think 10 round magazines or possibly even going back to revolvers would be much more appropriate. I also think SWAT should undergo major revisions.
 
Actually I'm pretty sure that's happened with the 85 shots incident, I think there was in fact a friendly fire incident. Again this is all dependent on my memory of this happening months and months ago.


Jeeze...... I would like to see a more factual article, no offence the one you posted tugged at the community heart strings.....


If he was down and they were all in a circle firing at him, yeah, not good...


I think the problem here is high capacity magazines. Do police need 17 rounds (I don't think anyone actually leaves one in the chamber)? I think cops are barred from having assault weapons for pretty good reasons and what they're doing now is basically trying to get as close to an assault weapon as they can without actually having automatics. I think 10 round magazines or possibly even going back to revolvers would be much more appropriate. I also think SWAT should undergo major revisions.





While I do believe there has been to some extent an over militarization of our police forces, I think that there is nothing wrong with full capacity magazines and in fact when you are in a gun fight you want to have the firepower to protect your life.

I do think though as I alluded to in the NYPD shot accuracy department. That Police are woefully undertrained for the most part in the use of thier weapons and need more than a "qualification" minimum.....


It protects the citizens and it protects the officers and keeps them safer...
 
That might excuse them shooting him a few times. I remember when that came out, I did the math, they had to have reloaded.

Cops don't go to jail.

To Carroll, Diallo's movement reminded him of a prior arrest he made where he had to take a gun away from a suspect. Diallo, Carroll told jurors, never spoke once and never told the officers that he lived in the building. Diallo refused to heed repeated police commands by him and McMellon to "stop, show me your hands," according to Carroll.

"We said it clearly," Carroll said. "He just didn't want to listen."

Then, Carroll said, as Diallo began pulling the object out of his right pocket, he thought the West African immigrant was about to shoot McMellon. To save his partner, Carroll said he fired his weapon. He remembered seeing McMellon fly past him and thought that he had been hit by Diallo. Then, Carroll recalled, the gunfire became very loud, "like a cannon shot," and he thought he saw the muzzle of the object in Diallo's hand flashing.

Because Diallo remained standing during much of the barrage, Carroll said he thought Diallo was wearing a bulletproof vest. Carroll recalled hearing wood splintering. Carroll said he thought Diallo had shot his partner and that the suspect was determined not to go to jail. Carroll said he aimed at Diallo's legs in an attempt to stop him.

When Carroll's gun's 16 rounds were emptied, he said he reloaded and slowly approached Diallo, who was now floored, with his head propped up against the entrance way. Since Diallo still held the object in his right hand, Carroll said he still perceived him as a danger. Behind him, the officer heard his partners ask McMellon, "Where are you hit? Where are you hit?" [McMellon suffered no gun wounds.]

Court TV Online - U. S. - Officer who cried "Gun!" takes stand in Diallo shooting trial

How can you control a contagion of police overreaction? By controlling the crucial mechanism: guns. The key number in the Diallo case wasn’t 41; it was 16. Two of the four officers accounted for 32 of the 41 bullets, because each of them emptied his weapon.

» “Contagious Shooting” — How To Get Shot 50+ Times By Cops Dvorak Uncensored: General interest observations and true web-log.
 
Last edited:
Yeah I agree that article sucks but I just can't find a better one. The CP doesn't have great relations with the police, one of their reporters got night-sticked at a Mummia thing (another thing I've pretty much completely sided with the police on).

What I think happened was several officers came in from multiple directions, some behind him. He started waving his gun around and shouting. Then they started shooting. Like I said, I have no problem with the officers maintaining that he was a threat because I think he was. Anyway maybe I'm totally distorting it through memory, so I can't really debate it.

The question is how often do police really get into protracted gun fights with enemies with equivalent or greater fire power? It's hard to say. But I doubt it's that often.
 
I just did a search but I can't find it.

The incident I'm thinking of I'm actually more or less sided with the cops.

First off, they shot 84 times but only hit the guy like 20 times if I recall (go PPD) and he was wandering around with a gun in his hand, shirtless and ****ed up on PCP. I'm ok with lighting him up.

But that thing in New York is completely ****ed up.

I'll bet 5 thanks to anyone here that the BART cop wont see any jail time.

To see an example of this in action, here’s a video of a guy being shot 81 times by cops. Although he continually verbally threatened them and therefore, rightly thought dangerous, turns out he had a flip flop in his hand, not a gun. On the other hand, they had bullet proof shields and plenty of time to get all bystanders away. When he raised his hand, they could have waited before firing to see he had nothing. But he wanted to die and knew the cops would shoot first. Warning, very graphic.

» “Contagious Shooting” — How To Get Shot 50+ Times By Cops Dvorak Uncensored: General interest observations and true web-log.
 
Yeah I agree that article sucks but I just can't find a better one. The CP doesn't have great relations with the police, one of their reporters got night-sticked at a Mummia thing (another thing I've pretty much completely sided with the police on).

What I think happened was several officers came in from multiple directions, some behind him. He started waving his gun around and shouting. Then they started shooting. Like I said, I have no problem with the officers maintaining that he was a threat because I think he was. Anyway maybe I'm totally distorting it through memory, so I can't really debate it.

The question is how often do police really get into protracted gun fights with enemies with equivalent or greater fire power? It's hard to say. But I doubt it's that often.

It would REALLY help if you included the victim's NAME on the other shootings. :doh
 
It's in the article. His nickname is "Butter".

Sorry, I'm just returning to the thread and trying to catch up too quickly.

BTW, I thought they only killed Kenny, not Butters.

(Bad joke.)

And the guy shot 81 times in Compton was Deandre Brunston.
 
Last edited:
Re: Man's Fatal Shooting by San Francisco Subway Police Prompts Probe, Plans for Laws

I have had moderate training with sightless handcuffing and no matter what, I believe it's impossible to confuse a pistol with handcuffs. Now if the pistol was confused with a taser then I could see it being an idiotic mistake. But handcuffs in no way feel like a gun, especially to someone who handles the two regularly.

I know there is a difference between the two in the way they feel.

But when you reach back and then you lose focus on what you should be reaching for you may momentarily forget exactly what you are doing and because you so often reach for your weapon in practice and in cleaning, it would not seem out of habit enough to wake you up to what you should be reaching for.

Have you ever hit the "Return" key on your keyboard by accident or mistakenly clicked "Submit" or "Send" or "Delete"?

Those keys or buttons look different from others but because your mind wanders to something else for just a moment you do what you ordinarily do in such a circumstance.

When the prompt on my computer asks me if I'm sure that I want to delete the contents of the trash bin I automatically say yes. Never think about it.

Well, the danger there is that I may, one day, bypass that safety mechanism and hit "YES" when I really don't want to delete my trash.

That's what I fear may have happened here.

He reached back and lost focus and instead of unholstering the cuffs and doing what you do with cuffs he, instead, unholstered his sidearm and did what you do with a pistol.

You shoot it.

He shot it.

All while on mental 'auto-pilot.'

Tragedy all around.
 
Re: Man's Fatal Shooting by San Francisco Subway Police Prompts Probe, Plans for Laws

I know there is a difference between the two in the way they feel.

But when you reach back and then you lose focus on what you should be reaching for you may momentarily forget exactly what you are doing and because you so often reach for your weapon in practice and in cleaning, it would not seem out of habit enough to wake you up to what you should be reaching for.

Have you ever hit the "Return" key on your keyboard by accident or mistakenly clicked "Submit" or "Send" or "Delete"?

Those keys or buttons look different from others but because your mind wanders to something else for just a moment you do what you ordinarily do in such a circumstance.

When the prompt on my computer asks me if I'm sure that I want to delete the contents of the trash bin I automatically say yes. Never think about it.

Well, the danger there is that I may, one day, bypass that safety mechanism and hit "YES" when I really don't want to delete my trash.

That's what I fear may have happened here.

He reached back and lost focus and instead of unholstering the cuffs and doing what you do with cuffs he, instead, unholstered his sidearm and did what you do with a pistol.

You shoot it.

He shot it.

All while on mental 'auto-pilot.'

Tragedy all around.


There is a trick for not falling asleep while driving. (If you care about money)

If you are nodding off then you drive while holding your hand out of your window with your wallet. If you care enough about it you will not forget.

If you replace my Return key with a trigger that will blow away you better believe I'll never press it unless I mean to. When you have a gun on you, you should never be in auto pilot. Auto-pilot is for repetative jobs or junkies.
 
Re: Man's Fatal Shooting by San Francisco Subway Police Prompts Probe, Plans for Laws

At best, the way things look is that you can say it's accidental. That's, IMO, absolute best case scenario. If it was accidental, the officer needs to be brought up on manslaughter charges and never again allowed to work in the field of law enforcement. Worst case is that it's purposeful, though I can't imagine how an officer would purposefully execute a restrained suspect. I'm more inclined to believe it was accidental. Though if purposeful, the officer needs to be brought up on murder charges. I think that the chance that it was justifiable is almost zero.

I think he resigned.

And I can imagine the possibility that his lawyer could say the Officer's training was partly at fault.
 
Re: Man's Fatal Shooting by San Francisco Subway Police Prompts Probe, Plans for Laws

There is a trick for not falling asleep while driving. (If you care about money)

If you are nodding off then you drive while holding your hand out of your window with your wallet. If you care enough about it you will not forget.

If you replace my Return key with a trigger that will blow away you better believe I'll never press it unless I mean to. When you have a gun on you, you should never be in auto pilot. Auto-pilot is for repetative jobs or junkies.

You have any idea how many times every month a cop draws his weapon from his holster and fires it in simulated combat situations? In the hundreds.

That's repetitive.
 
Re: Man's Fatal Shooting by San Francisco Subway Police Prompts Probe, Plans for Laws

There is a trick for not falling asleep while driving. (If you care about money)

If you are nodding off then you drive while holding your hand out of your window with your wallet. If you care enough about it you will not forget.

I think I'll just get a red bull.
 
oh ok that's different. black people need to stop naming their kids the **** they name them.

or we should retaliate by naming our kids in non-anglicized names. Like bring back all the gaelic and celtic names. Name our kids "Colm", "Abernathy" etc.
 
oh ok that's different. black people need to stop naming their kids the **** they name them.

or we should retaliate by naming our kids in non-anglicized names. Like bring back all the gaelic and celtic names. Name our kids "Colm", "Abernathy" etc.

I wish I would have gotten a good old fashioned Norweigan name.
 
When I was in school I had one of those parenting classes where you have to take the fake baby and care for it. We named him DeAndre. :lol: I got the name because it was my 'partner' in the classes middle name and I just really liked it, so that's what we named it.
 
Back
Top Bottom