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Thread: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

  1. #151
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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    I wish I would have gotten a good old fashioned Norweigan name.
    Bjørn is pretty good.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    is it pronounced dee-an-dra?
    dee-AHN-dray, with the emphasis on the second syllable.

    Or di André.

    OBL 11/24/02

  3. #153
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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I agree, it sucks that your parents named you Jennifer. That had to be rough.
    Only because its a common name....
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    I demand a cessation of the name Jessica. There are SIX in my phone. Too many.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Joining this one a bit late it seems now that the conversation has veered off topic...

    I just wanted to make a couple of points and respond to a few others...

    First concerning the shooting, the guy gave the sign of 'I give up / I'm sorry / Don't hurt me." This is not a message you send out if you are resisting arrest... then they throw this guy on the ground, subdued by 2 cops and showing no signs of resistance.

    So, the cop pulls out his gun... I would be willing to give this guy the benefit of the doubt that he meant to taser the guy... but why cattle prod someone that's following instruction?? Does this mean that we are SUPPOSED to put up a fight when being arrested?? So at least when you get tasered/shot it's 'justified'??

    What irks me is that they tried passing the story off initially saying that the camera's at that one station just happened to NOT BE FILMING??? Seriously, f@@k right off if you expect me to believe that... the camera's are there to be a witness to crime, and it just so happens when it's a cop committing the crime the camera had been 'turned off'?? How gullible are you people?

    So, the cop ended a man's life: He should face a charge of murder with an opening deal of accepting manslaughter. Anything less than that sends the message that both that cops are NOT responsible to the people they are meant to protect and serve or responsible for their actions. It would also serve as a precedent that cops are above the law.

    Now about the riots : "anarchists" wearing all black waving the black flag have on several occasions been exposed as police officers instigating conflicts then leaving to see the legitimate and peaceful protesters to take the beatings. This happened twice in Canada, at the DNC and RNC conventions, in Melbourne, Australia, in Geneva, etc. And I mean CAUGHT AND EXPOSED, NOT SUSPECTED. BUT FULLY EXPOSED. UNDENIABLY. I don't condone the acts of breaking shop windows, etc... but if it seems that the official channels of justice are NOT going to act on the issue, then you can expect people to take action, if not taking justice into their own hands... and that would serve as a lesson to police everywhere that THEY SERVE US. WE DO NOT SERVE POLICE!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Was it actually normal people or was it anarchists?
    Supposedly it was the anarchists that started the 'rioting'.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightOfCenter View Post
    That is straight up murder.

    Anyone find it a bit odd that the family's lawyer is wearing a hoodie when being filmed by the news?
    It IS murder if he intentionally pulled out his gun. If he meant to grab his taser and fired before checking, that would be manslaughter. I'm willing to give this cop the benefit, although the frenzy the cops were in seemed uncalled for considering the calm of the detained suspects. If it turns out that the station camera's were working, then all the officers involved should also be charged for interfering with an investigation, and any other applicable charges with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I can pretty much guarantee you that the cops wouldn't be rioting through their neighborhoods, burning their own stores.
    No, Cops have their own way of getting vengeance on cop killers... I'm reminded of a group of men that were pulled over in their car and beaten by 13 cops + 2 dogs. Also, don't think for a second that cops don't use tactics to beat a suspect without leaving bruises.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I think the scum rioting merely used the shooting as an excuse to riot. The second they start rioting the media should refer to them as scum,criminals, or rioters. Calling them protesters just gives a bad name to protesters in general.
    True, once violence starts cops don't tend to distinguish between the violent people and the peaceful ones either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Wait...
    I thought the police were all well-trained and competent.
    I mean, that's why -they- should be allowed to carry guns, while the rest of us should not...
    Yes, but cops are no longer trained in a 'protect and serve' mentality... they are trained in an 'us vs them' mentality, comparable to military training.

    I heartily disagree with the opinion that the general public should not be carrying guns. Although I WOULD agree that to open or concealed carry a weapon on the street should require a basic proficiency test.

    I mean think about it, if you plan to break into a house would you think twice if you knew that if you are seen you will likely end up shot?? Same thing at the 'riots' if the protestors were carrying guns they could have decisively dealt with those tainting the message they hoped to send?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Is this an excuse for rioting?
    No, Although, if justice is not served I wouldn't object to the protestors paying the officer a visit. i'd rather see justice prevail, even if it's mob justice where the justice system had failed.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Well then let's just call them insurgents for perpetrating mass violence against the citizens and the government authority and put a bullet in their heads.
    Don't be so eager to have cops put a bullet in someone's head, because then you're also putting yourself at a higher risk of having to deal with one of those trigger-happy cops you'd help to create.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Which is why they should be suppressed swiftly and with all necessary force.
    We're talking about people demanding justice, and you would have them executed?? Don't get me wrong, the perpetrators of the riots should see charges as well... but I'd much rather see justice be handled in the courts with detained suspects, not in an 'fatality incident report' because of some gun-happy cops on a power trip.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I imagine that your desire to burn your neighbor's car is severely diminished by seeing your fellow rioters' brains splattered across the pavement. Just sayin'.
    Yes, but how long before the cops turn psychopathic from being so easy to end people's life that any encounter with police becomes a gamble with your own life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Where is the "malice aforethought"?
    It depends if the guy intentionally grabbed his gun or if he legitimately had 'taser confusion'. He should see a courtroom for murder with an offer to accept manslaughter, I could also see a plea of 'temporary insanity' based on his immediate reaction of the gunshot.

    In a just world, once the gun fired and the suspect detained, the other cops should have arrested the culprit on the scene, although realistically this wouldn't happen.

    Cops are trained to use tasers for much less than this these days.
    True, and I am saddened by that... keep the cattle prods for the cattle.

  6. #156
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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    No, I find it funny that you would use that against a Trotskyist, as if that has any meaning or significance to me or what I believe.
    Sure it does Trotsky and Lenin were responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands and the setting up of an authoritarian regime. There a lot worse than any anarchist has been.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-09-09 at 08:47 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Don't be so eager to have cops put a bullet in someone's head, because then you're also putting yourself at a higher risk of having to deal with one of those trigger-happy cops you'd help to create.



    We're talking about people demanding justice, and you would have them executed?? Don't get me wrong, the perpetrators of the riots should see charges as well... but I'd much rather see justice be handled in the courts with detained suspects, not in an 'fatality incident report' because of some gun-happy cops on a power trip.



    Yes, but how long before the cops turn psychopathic from being so easy to end people's life that any encounter with police becomes a gamble with your own life?
    I think we're misunderstanding each other here. At the point a riot broke out, the response should have been made with the national guard or a contingent from the nearest military installation.

  8. #158
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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    YouTube - Bart Police shooting in Oakland KTVU report

    I really want somebody to tell me this cop was acting in self defense when there were 3 policemen on top of the unarmed 'suspect' already.
    Looked like an execution actually, The cop even fumbled for his gun while the other cop was working on restraining the kid on the floor. I do not think the other cop even had a clue as to what his partner was about to do.

    Pretty sad all the way around. Oakland is not a big happy sandbox where all the kids are scrubbed clean and play nice though either. Any word on warrants on this kid?

    He may have been a known violent offender or dealer and that cop may have mistook a move the kid made. Trying to reach into a coat pocket or maybe under his shirt/back of his pants. Does not look like they had searched these kids yet.

    Moe

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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I think we're misunderstanding each other here. At the point a riot broke out, the response should have been made with the national guard or a contingent from the nearest military installation.
    Agreed that at the point of it being a riot the national guard should be called, but there are many things that can be done to contain a riot without firing a live round.

    I haven't seen much video of the riot itself, but watching the video, consider the typical 'anarchist'. Disillusioned youth, karma loving hippy types that think living in a world with no laws everyone could cooperate, those that hate the government and figure 'no government' would be best... and in the minority the brutish anarchists that start riots. Many times these huge 'anarchists' are really cops instigating a police 'retaliation'. I'm not saying that this was the case this time, but it has been the case in the past...

    More to you point, while situations may arise in a riot situation where live fire becomes unnavoidable, it should be a final and drastic last resort. Your previous statements implied that should make an armed response more easily acceptable.

    Especially when you've got military doing 'homeland tours' of US soil. The guys that are used to people shooting back no less. I'm afraid that if situations keep arising like this that things may get very bloody before things get better,

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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Quote Originally Posted by moe View Post
    Looked like an execution actually, The cop even fumbled for his gun while the other cop was working on restraining the kid on the floor. I do not think the other cop even had a clue as to what his partner was about to do.
    It really did look like an execution... but seriously, how much can you be struggling with a knee in your back and a knee on your neck... how much would you struggle BECAUSE of that? Looking at the guy's movements it seemed he knew he was about to get shot/zapped... but I dunno.

    Pretty sad all the way around. Oakland is not a big happy sandbox where all the kids are scrubbed clean and play nice though either. Any word on warrants on this kid?
    Ya, so the cops are already on edge and eager to pull out at least the tazer? I don't even see how the taser was necessary, he should have pulled out his cuffs instead.

    He may have been a known violent offender or dealer and that cop may have mistook a move the kid made. Trying to reach into a coat pocket or maybe under his shirt/back of his pants. Does not look like they had searched these kids yet.

    Moe
    So, it was a 'hit' then? He was all but subdued and ready to be cuffed... this cop needs to see the inside of a jail cell. I'd be willing to accept 'taser confusion' as a defense, but he did kill a man.

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