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Thread: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

  1. #121
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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    I sort of found an article about it

    85 Shots :: Cover Story :: Philadelphia City Paper :: Philadelphia Arts, Restaurants, Music, Movies, Jobs, Classifieds, Blogs

    My problems with this incident are twofold:

    First why can't the PPD ****ing shoot straight, I have a bare minimum of gun training and I only go to a range about once a month but I'm pretty sure I could have done better. And second, they need to not shoot so much in a populated neighborhood.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    I sort of found an article about it

    85 Shots :: Cover Story :: Philadelphia City Paper :: Philadelphia Arts, Restaurants, Music, Movies, Jobs, Classifieds, Blogs

    My problems with this incident are twofold:

    First why can't the PPD ****ing shoot straight, I have a bare minimum of gun training and I only go to a range about once a month but I'm pretty sure I could have done better. And second, they need to not shoot so much in a populated neighborhood.




    I am looking at it now. I will just say the running joke at the ranges I go to are if the NYPD is shooting at you the safest place to stand is right in front of them...



    I have links somewhere. NYPD hit rate is like 17%... Appalling..... Even worse, the criminals hit rate is 21%


    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  3. #123
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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Ok...



    When Butter was killed, he was high, standing on a corner and waving a loaded gun. He hadn't pointed it at anyone, or if he had, it had been completely accidental,

    Justified shooting, Remember you have the rest of your life to win a gun fight.

    And as I said about the cop in this thread, I will say about the high guy waving a gun around police.

    Stupid hurts.


    Whats missing...


    85 shots sounds like a lot. what is missing is how many officers fired thier weapon. Do you have this?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  4. #124
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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    I said I've more or less accepted this shooting as justifiable. He was on PPC, shouting and armed. I just think they didn't need to shoot him 20 times or fire 85 times. It's a public safety issue.

    If I remember it was maybe five officers?
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

  5. #125
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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    I said I've more or less accepted this shooting as justifiable. He was on PPC, shouting and armed. I just think they didn't need to shoot him 20 times or fire 85 times. It's a public safety issue.

    If I remember it was maybe five officers?



    PPC? PCP?




    Officers and anyone who does training regarding shooting learns, you keep shooting until the threat is neutralized.


    If they reloaded, he was probably still standing and holding the weapon......



    Also that is 17 shots each if it was 5.... Can we verify this?


    Glock 17 which is what Philly pd is issued I believe holds 17+1 in a magazine. I do not think they (though they may) carry the extended 19+1 round magazine....


    Now I am sure if they remembered thier training, some may have done what is called a "Tactical reload" then again, these are city officers, so they may not have. Then again there is an argument at the validity and need for such action so who knows.





    See it makes all the difference in the world when journalists sensationalize the facts with "SHOT 41 times"........


    I remember there was another shooting, I forget which one.... were the media played it up, but when it came down to it, it was like 4.5 shots per officer.... It was the one with the off duty and the guy that tried to run him down or something....


    Whenever you see "85 times" the 1st question should be, how many officers were involved?

    Then divide the number of rounds by the number of officers and it paints a completely different picture...
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  6. #126
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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Yeah, PCP, sorry. He smoked wet before the incident.

    I can't seem to find any confirmation on the amount of cops.

    Anyway, they all got off, with some kind of reprimand. Which I guess I agree with. I think what they did was totally unreasonable and endangered public safety, purely through putting that much metal in the air. But I do think that guy was asking for a good shooting.

    And I'm not sure that 10 cops standing in a circle around a down man unloading their glocks into him would mitigate much.
    Last edited by new coup for you; 01-09-09 at 12:34 PM.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

  7. #127
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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    Yeah, PCP, sorry. He smoked wet before the incident.

    I can't seem to find any confirmation on the amount of cops.

    Anyway, they all got off, with some kind of reprimand. Which I guess I agree with. I think what they did was totally unreasonable and endangered public safety, purely through putting that much metal in the air. But I do think that guy was asking for a good shooting.

    And I'm not sure that 10 cops standing in a circle around a down man unloading their glocks into him would mitigate much.



    I would advise strongly against this tactic. Stupid hurts.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  8. #128
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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Actually I'm pretty sure that's happened with the 85 shots incident, I think there was in fact a friendly fire incident. Again this is all dependent on my memory of this happening months and months ago.

    I think the problem here is high capacity magazines. Do police need 17 rounds (I don't think anyone actually leaves one in the chamber)? I think cops are barred from having assault weapons for pretty good reasons and what they're doing now is basically trying to get as close to an assault weapon as they can without actually having automatics. I think 10 round magazines or possibly even going back to revolvers would be much more appropriate. I also think SWAT should undergo major revisions.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

  9. #129
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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    Actually I'm pretty sure that's happened with the 85 shots incident, I think there was in fact a friendly fire incident. Again this is all dependent on my memory of this happening months and months ago.

    Jeeze...... I would like to see a more factual article, no offence the one you posted tugged at the community heart strings.....


    If he was down and they were all in a circle firing at him, yeah, not good...


    I think the problem here is high capacity magazines. Do police need 17 rounds (I don't think anyone actually leaves one in the chamber)? I think cops are barred from having assault weapons for pretty good reasons and what they're doing now is basically trying to get as close to an assault weapon as they can without actually having automatics. I think 10 round magazines or possibly even going back to revolvers would be much more appropriate. I also think SWAT should undergo major revisions.




    While I do believe there has been to some extent an over militarization of our police forces, I think that there is nothing wrong with full capacity magazines and in fact when you are in a gun fight you want to have the firepower to protect your life.

    I do think though as I alluded to in the NYPD shot accuracy department. That Police are woefully undertrained for the most part in the use of thier weapons and need more than a "qualification" minimum.....


    It protects the citizens and it protects the officers and keeps them safer...
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  10. #130
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    Re: Protests over BART shooting turn violent

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    That might excuse them shooting him a few times. I remember when that came out, I did the math, they had to have reloaded.

    Cops don't go to jail.
    To Carroll, Diallo's movement reminded him of a prior arrest he made where he had to take a gun away from a suspect. Diallo, Carroll told jurors, never spoke once and never told the officers that he lived in the building. Diallo refused to heed repeated police commands by him and McMellon to "stop, show me your hands," according to Carroll.

    "We said it clearly," Carroll said. "He just didn't want to listen."

    Then, Carroll said, as Diallo began pulling the object out of his right pocket, he thought the West African immigrant was about to shoot McMellon. To save his partner, Carroll said he fired his weapon. He remembered seeing McMellon fly past him and thought that he had been hit by Diallo. Then, Carroll recalled, the gunfire became very loud, "like a cannon shot," and he thought he saw the muzzle of the object in Diallo's hand flashing.

    Because Diallo remained standing during much of the barrage, Carroll said he thought Diallo was wearing a bulletproof vest. Carroll recalled hearing wood splintering. Carroll said he thought Diallo had shot his partner and that the suspect was determined not to go to jail. Carroll said he aimed at Diallo's legs in an attempt to stop him.

    When Carroll's gun's 16 rounds were emptied, he said he reloaded and slowly approached Diallo, who was now floored, with his head propped up against the entrance way. Since Diallo still held the object in his right hand, Carroll said he still perceived him as a danger. Behind him, the officer heard his partners ask McMellon, "Where are you hit? Where are you hit?" [McMellon suffered no gun wounds.]
    Court TV Online - U. S. - Officer who cried "Gun!" takes stand in Diallo shooting trial

    How can you control a contagion of police overreaction? By controlling the crucial mechanism: guns. The key number in the Diallo case wasn’t 41; it was 16. Two of the four officers accounted for 32 of the 41 bullets, because each of them emptied his weapon.

    » “Contagious Shooting” — How To Get Shot 50+ Times By Cops Dvorak Uncensored: General interest observations and true web-log.
    Last edited by bhkad; 01-09-09 at 01:05 PM.

    OBL 11/24/02

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