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Thread: Mitchell, Paul Continue Efforts to Block Congressional Pay Raise

  1. #51
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    Re: Mitchell, Paul Continue Efforts to Block Congressional Pay Raise

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    The self importance you have placed on your profession is comical
    Not just my profession. I place a high value on education and competence across all areas of society, and understand that it's necessary to provide adequate wages in order to attract high quality employees.

    but we clearly disagree on how badly the supreme court and the lower courts have mangled things.
    This doesn't make sense. If you think they've mangled things so badly, don't you agree that we need to get better people in there?

    Crime sometimes does pay, unlike what your daddy might of told you.
    That's not really an answer to a perfectly logical question.

    So how exactly will more money bring a more honest candidate to the table? You increased the incentive of those in it for the money, I don't see the connection.
    It's not about attracting more honest people. The most honest man in the world probably isn't very bright. It's about attracting more intelligent and talented people.

    If you opened an engineering company but refused to pay more than $10 an hour, you might fill your positions but you'd have pretty ****ty employees. On the other hand, if you paid $2000 an hour you'd probably have the best engineers in the country clamoring to work there. It's all about understanding the market. The market for professionals of the caliber that I (and most of society) would want on the federal bench is a lot higher than what judges are currently getting paid.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 01-09-09 at 06:34 PM.
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    Re: Mitchell, Paul Continue Efforts to Block Congressional Pay Raise

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    That's not really an answer to a perfectly logical question.
    Your question was pretty lame actually.

    The logical question is what great candidates are we missing out on because of salary concerns justifying an increase. Do we have an epidemic where nominees are turning down the position of scRotus? Has it happened even once?

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    Re: Mitchell, Paul Continue Efforts to Block Congressional Pay Raise

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Actually, NYC is right. In any debate, you just can't make wild claims without at least providing a single iota of evidence to back that claim up. It's the way we do things in America.

    You have chosen wisely your forum name. You detect truth, right? So, detect some truth today, and show it to the rest of us. Where's the beef?
    Please elaborate for my edification what is "wild" about correctly stating that litigation in this country is the single greatest destroyer of manufacturing jobs in this nation and one of the primary reasons for the HIGH cost in medical care; it's at least good for some schits N giggles.

    Then for further laughs, tell me why I need to defend someone else's wild claim that my claim is wild without them having to prove it.

    Carry on.


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    Re: Mitchell, Paul Continue Efforts to Block Congressional Pay Raise

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    One last question: If the skillset to become a Supreme Court Justice is only worth 50-60k, then how come law firms pay 24 year olds 195k?
    This sounds to me like a wild eyed claim to me. Can you share a link to support your notion that 24 year olds fresh out of law school can command a salary of $195K?

    Law Firms make their money by billable hours; so let's also break down how many hours a week it would take a green law student to justify a law firm paying him $195K.

    Carry on. I am still waiting for you to prove that my claims about litigation in this country are ruining the manufacturing sector and NOT the greatest reason for the high costs of health care these days.

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    Re: Mitchell, Paul Continue Efforts to Block Congressional Pay Raise

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Your question was pretty lame actually.

    The logical question is what great candidates are we missing out on because of salary concerns justifying an increase. Do we have an epidemic where nominees are turning down the position of scRotus? Has it happened even once?
    SCOTUS? Probably not. Federal judgeship? Of course. It happens with regularity that judges decline to accept or leave their posts because they can garner salaries of $3mm+ the minute they take jobs at firms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    This sounds to me like a wild eyed claim to me. Can you share a link to support your notion that 24 year olds fresh out of law school can command a salary of $195K?
    Personal experience? The median starting salary for graduates of most good law schools is $160k plus bonus, which is generally $35k.

    Law Firms make their money by billable hours; so let's also break down how many hours a week it would take a green law student to justify a law firm paying him $195K.
    Most first year associates bill at rates of around $300 - 350/hr. If you bill 2000 hrs/year, the firm is taking in $600-700k off of your work. $195k in salary isn't unreasonable at all.
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    Re: Mitchell, Paul Continue Efforts to Block Congressional Pay Raise

    You know, I'm actually a Ron Paul supporter...

    But its amazing how much people who complain that democrats use class warfare and try to punish the successful turn around and are having a fun go at judges and lawyers for daring to make themselves successful.

    True conservativism there folks, really, way to prove your point


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    Re: Mitchell, Paul Continue Efforts to Block Congressional Pay Raise

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You know, I'm actually a Ron Paul supporter...

    But its amazing how much people who complain that democrats use class warfare and try to punish the successful turn around and are having a fun go at judges and lawyers for daring to make themselves successful.

    True conservativism there folks, really, way to prove your point

    My only gripe is that these politicians and judges willingly accept the post knowing what the pay is, then try to renogotiate during their tenures, the fact is that many, not all of the laws and decisions passed lately have been very sketchy and don't merit a raise, hell, if many of these guys were private sector they'd be fired.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Mitchell, Paul Continue Efforts to Block Congressional Pay Raise

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    My only gripe is that these politicians and judges willingly accept the post knowing what the pay is, then try to renogotiate during their tenures, the fact is that many, not all of the laws and decisions passed lately have been very sketchy and don't merit a raise, hell, if many of these guys were private sector they'd be fired.
    It's not that they're trying to get things renegotiated to double their salaries, they are just expecting the COLA that have been promised to them and are long overdue. Judges in NYS had their salaries frozen for over a decade because the legislature couldn't get their act together, and had to file a lawsuit to get the matter resolved.

    It's also not a matter of judges taking the job and then threatening to quit, it's a matter of judges actually leaving:

    Law.com - Federal Judge Rejoins Law Firm for 'Financial Reasons'

    U.S. Chief District Judge to resign from Tulsa federal bench for top | Journal Record, The (Oklahoma City) | Find Articles at BNET

    Judge Paul Cassell is Resigning | ConfirmThem

    U.S. District Judge Kelley will resign, work for D.C. law firm | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

    Federal district judges are appointed for life and typically stay on the job well past retirement age. Of 45 current vacancies in federal district and appeals courts across the country, four are due to resignations, according to the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts.

    "It's unusual, but it's been happening increasingly, partly because the federal judges have not had a significant pay raise in a long time," said Carl Tobias, a professor at the University of Richmond School of Law.

    The Administrative Office says on its Web site that in the 1970s, 22 federal judges departed from the bench. That number rose to 55 in the 1990s and this decade there have been 48 resignations so far. The office expects 68 departures by 2010.

    Federal district judges earn $165,200 annually, about $20,000 less than a senior attorney with the Securities and Exchange Commission and about $265,000 less than the dean of a top law school.
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    Re: Mitchell, Paul Continue Efforts to Block Congressional Pay Raise

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    It's not that they're trying to get things renegotiated to double their salaries, they are just expecting the COLA that have been promised to them and are long overdue. Judges in NYS had their salaries frozen for over a decade because the legislature couldn't get their act together, and had to file a lawsuit to get the matter resolved.

    It's also not a matter of judges taking the job and then threatening to quit, it's a matter of judges actually leaving:

    Law.com - Federal Judge Rejoins Law Firm for 'Financial Reasons'

    U.S. Chief District Judge to resign from Tulsa federal bench for top | Journal Record, The (Oklahoma City) | Find Articles at BNET

    Judge Paul Cassell is Resigning | ConfirmThem

    U.S. District Judge Kelley will resign, work for D.C. law firm | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com
    If it's just what was promised I completely understand that, and that is fair, I thought there was a overall pay raise issue though.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Mitchell, Paul Continue Efforts to Block Congressional Pay Raise

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    My only gripe is that these politicians and judges willingly accept the post knowing what the pay is, then try to renogotiate during their tenures, the fact is that many, not all of the laws and decisions passed lately have been very sketchy and don't merit a raise, hell, if many of these guys were private sector they'd be fired.
    I have a question - should judges be denied their COLAs while all Congressmen and Senators get it each year? Because that is what's happening.

    There is a reason they can't be fired for political reasons - they are independent from the other branches. They can be impeached if they make a bad legal decision, but that just doesn't happen, and nor should it. Judges are there to apply the law, not reaffirm our politics.

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