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Private job losses mount, ominous for payrolls

Whats the unemployment rate of Europe that you claim is doing so much better as compared to the US?

Germany: 10.8% (2006 est)
Country Fast Facts: Germany, - CBS News

UK: 5.3% (2007 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/uk.html

France: 7.9% (2007 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/fr.html#Econ

And those don't take into account the recent downturn in economies worldwide. You've posted about Spain's going up. If the US' economy continues to slow what do you think is going to happen to the European economy where every country exports about 10% to the US and only imports about 5% from the US?

Things aren't good--this isn't a dot com boom--but its nowhere close to a disaster or even something to be overly worried about at this point.
 
Nah, socialism is most likely the reason why European economies are so resilient even when the US and the UK is collapsing.
Are you serious?

"Resilient"? For you... If that word were a sound, would it be like a toilet flushing?

Europe is anything but resilient. Ask Gerhard Schroeder. He said he would cut unemployment in half and doubled it like a good socialist... and during pretty good economic times for much of the world.

When EU nations have progress, it is from cutting away the socialism. Offering Flat tax rates of 10 and 20%. Having lower corporate tax rates.

Europe vs. the USA?

A study was done by a group of Swedish economists at a group called Timbro. They found the best European countries are equal to the bottom five States in the US. Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas and the like.

http://www.timbro.se/bokhandel/pdf/9175665646.pdf
 
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Whats the unemployment rate of Europe that you claim is doing so much better as compared to the US?

Germany: 10.8% (2006 est)
Country Fast Facts: Germany, - CBS News

UK: 5.3% (2007 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/uk.html

France: 7.9% (2007 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/fr.html#Econ

And those don't take into account the recent downturn in economies worldwide. You've posted about Spain's going up. If the US' economy continues to slow what do you think is going to happen to the European economy where every country exports about 10% to the US and only imports about 5% from the US?

Things aren't good--this isn't a dot com boom--but its nowhere close to a disaster or even something to be overly worried about at this point.

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/pl...REREL_YEAR_2009_MONTH_01/3-08012009-EN-AP.PDF

Those numbers are OLD..
November numbers..

Eurozone(15 nations), 7.8%, up from 7.2% November 2007.
EU 27, 7.2%, up from 6.9% November 2007.

Germany 7.1% DOWN from 8% November 2007.
France 7.9% up from 7.8% November 2007.
UK 5.9% (September), up from 5% November 2007.


The increase is not dramatic at all in Europe. The most dramatic is the UK, of the big ones. Of all, its most severe in eastern Europe as a region. and Spain.

So yes, my claim is completely valid, we are doing FAR better than the US when it comes to stability. You have lost 3% in just 1 year.
 
Are you serious?

"Resilient"? For you... If that word were a sound, would it be like a toilet flushing?

Europe is anything but resilient. Ask Gerhard Schroeder. He said he would cut unemployment in half and doubled it like a good socialist... and during pretty good economic times for much of the world.

When EU nations have progress, it is from cutting away the socialism. Offering Flat tax rates of 10 and 20%. Having lower corporate tax rates.

Europe vs. the USA?

A study was done by a group of Swedish economists at a group called Timbro. They found the best European countries are equal to the bottom five States in the US. Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas and the like.

http://www.timbro.se/bokhandel/pdf/9175665646.pdf

Actually, he pretty much did that. Germany unemployment rates are now at 7%, down from a year ago at 8%, and if I am not mistaken down from several years ago at a rate of around 12%.. So actually the rate is almost halved. Even the last few months the unemployment rate has gone down in Germany.

Who care about GDP anyways? Those same people(in the US) also work double as hard as Europeans, and our economies are far denser, meaning, our real development is far higher. By many means of measuring European economies are far richer than most parts of the state. But the again, that there PDF is pretty old also, if you measure even the GDP now, European states would be far ahead, because that survey was done when the Euro was weak.
 
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/pl...REREL_YEAR_2009_MONTH_01/3-08012009-EN-AP.PDF

Those numbers are OLD..
November numbers..

Eurozone(15 nations), 7.8%, up from 7.2% November 2007.
EU 27, 7.2%, up from 6.9% November 2007.

Germany 7.1% DOWN from 8% November 2007.
France 7.9% up from 7.8% November 2007.
UK 5.9% (September), up from 5% November 2007.


The increase is not dramatic at all in Europe. The most dramatic is the UK, of the big ones. Of all, its most severe in eastern Europe as a region. and Spain.

So yes, my claim is completely valid, we are doing FAR better than the US when it comes to stability. You have lost 3% in just 1 year.

So the worst US unemployment rate in recent history is the AVERAGE EU rate. Notice those figures are 2 years old as our 7% rating is supposedly current.
 
So the worst US unemployment rate in recent history is the AVERAGE EU rate. Notice those figures are 2 years old as our 7% rating is supposedly current.

The numbers I showed you are current(the numbers you showed are old). And the unemployment rate in the US is not the worst ever.. Its the worst since the 90s.

I am only trying to show you that your economic collapse is more drastic and dangerous than you think it might be, especially since Europeans aren't loosing jobs at all. Thats actually a lie, overall we have lost 0.7% since last year, while you lost 3%+...
 
The numbers I showed you are current(the numbers you showed are old).
and they show that our unemployment rates are now about equal.

And the unemployment rate in the US is not the worst ever.. Its the worst since the 90s.
I didn't say "ever". I'll check it when I get home.

I am only trying to show you that your economic collapse is more drastic and dangerous than you think it might be, especially since Europeans aren't loosing jobs at all. Thats actually a lie, overall we have lost 0.7% since last year, while you lost 3%+...
We have lost 3% which now puts us at what your rate is. If 7% is bad then you guys have been doing bad for a long time.
 
the economy? Yes, its bad - Worse than the 1983 crash, but not as bad as 1929. I think the biggest contributing factor this time was the dismantling of the Glass-Steagall Act, that had effectively walled the Banking, Insurance, and Stock market sectors from each other so that, if one sector went down, it would not take the other sectors down with it. Who is responsible, you ask? Bush? Clinton? Republicans? Democrats? They are ALL responsible. In 1999, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act was passed, thus removing the protection that Glass-Steagall had provided. The authors of the bill were Republicans, but the bill was signed into law by Bill Clinton, a Democrat.

Plenty of blame to go around here, folks, but all I see is finger pointing. Since this bill was signed into law, our current economic crises cannot really be pinned only on Bush. Sure, under Bush, we spent like drunken sailors, and that also contributed heavily to the economic problems we now face. But taking down the Glass-Steagall protection was NOT Bush, and that contributed more heavily to the mess we are in. However, we can pin the dismantling of Glass-Steagall directly on the Republican party itself, as well as the Democratic party. Like I always say, it takes two to tango, and in 1999, the Democrats and Republicans were perfect dancing partners. Let's call their dance the "Over the Cliff Tango". Even without the crazy spending under Bush, we were headed for trouble. Bush may have made it worse, but he did not instigate it.
 
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and they show that our unemployment rates are now about equal.

Yep, they certainly do.

I didn't say "ever". I'll check it when I get home.

My mistake, you said "in modern times" or something along those lines.

Correction: our rate is an expected 7.0% to 7.2%. The EU rate is 7.8% and has been in the 7% range for over a year.

True..

We have lost 3% which now puts us at what your rate is. If 7% is bad then you guys have been doing bad for a long time.

Yes, we have, our unemployment have averaged 10%.. Now its down to 7%, and the general long term trend now is for its decrease. Even in time of crisis it is still resilient and staying rather stable, while the US unemployment is shooting through the roof.. That curve is pretty scary, you ought to care and try to do something about it!
 
You cant really compare unemployment numbers from the US to those of the European countries.

The US number is a poll, a scientific poll but a poll, where as most European numbers are actually very exact numbers in comparison.

In most European countries, unemployment numbers are based on people applying for unemployment (aka registering for it) payment, which gives a very accurate number, and you can stay registered forever or until you are thrown over in another statistical pool (not employable, early retirement or whatever the country uses). You do not fall out of the system just because you have been unemployed for 3 years for example

As I understand the US number based on the official website, the US number is a statical model with information gathered from many different sources, that may or may not be accurate. On top of that people who run out of unemployment insurance, simply drop off the radar. This warps the actual unemployment number (lowers it) considerably. For example, thanks to this and other factors the official unemployment number has either fallen or stayed the same despite there being tons of job losses.

With a group of 100 professional men and women (non-farm labor,) working for a variety of different corporations, at the first of month No. 1, 4 percent of these professionals are cut. With 96 people employed, 4 people are on unemployment benefits for the next 10 weeks. And our unemployment rate is 4 percent.

At the first of month No.2, two more people are laid off... six people are on unemployment benefits for the next 10 weeks, and six weeks respectively. While 94 people are employed the unemployment rate has risen to 6 percent.

Month No.3, four of our original 100 lose their benefits, so, 96 people are counted in the pool. Three people are laid off and our total of unemployed professionals stands at five, but the unemployment rate has dropped from month No.2, to 5 percent without anyone having found a new job.

Month No.4; great news two people have found jobs (one from month No.2,) two people are laid off, but we have a second readjustment to the number of employed, because only the two hired now count. With 95 people in the pool, our unemployment rate holds steady at 5 percent.

Month No.5; more great news two people found jobs! One person fell off the benefits, three people are laid off and now, we only have 94 people to measure. The unemployment rate holds steady at 5 percent.

Month No. 6, no new jobs this month with our 94 people. Two people were laid off. We loose two people on benefits. We have five people on benefits in total, and now with only 92 people to measure, our unemployment rates holds at 5 percent.

Month No. 7; excellent news two people were hired this month! Three were laid off. Four people live on benefits and one person fell off. And our unemployment rate has fallen to 4 percent while the number of people on benefits is at the lowest in six months.

Taken from this old article, but it is a good explanation.

T&A: Unemployment Rate United States

That is why the true US unemployment number is far higher than the actual.

On the other hand, European countries (like the US also does) love to "hide" unemployed people in different statistics. For example, in Denmark when a person goes for retraining, he moves from the unemployment statistics to the education statistics... yet he still receives unemployment insurance or similar.

Also the way that countries handle part time employees is different even with-in the EU. In Denmark part time is around 15 hours a week for example, and are only counted as half a full time job, where in the US I believe half time employment is counted as full time.

All this, and more, makes unemployment comparison near impossible between the US and EU, and even with in the EU to be honest.
 
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