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Thread: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

  1. #431
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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    The truth being that it's not charity, it's social morals where those who have, help those without....
    So, again, you don't -really- have an issue with imposing morality on others, so long as it is a morality you approve of.

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Having lived in socialist Utopian countries like Germany, Finland and Sweden... Former east Germany and Poland after The Wall came down... Mexico and Kanuckistan... I know socialism all too well. I don't need a Kool-Aid consumer to tell me about socialism. I've seen its damage first hand on many fronts and degrees.
    Oh really? Please detail that damage for oh... let's say Germany and Sweden. Go.

    Obama is a socialist. He believes in government. "Spreading the wealth around" for him does not mean the private sector creating opportunity, it means government coercion, intrusion, penalization (for success), and the iron hand of government redistributing said wealth.
    I would say he is more correctly a social democrat...
    From Wiki:
    In the early 20th century, however, a number of socialist and labor parties rejected revolution and other traditional teachings of Marxism and went on to take more moderate positions, which came to characterize modern social democracy. These positions often include support for a democratic welfare state which incorporates elements of both socialism and capitalism, sometimes termed the mixed economy.
    LOL... he asks a question that gets Obama to reveal who he is, and typical of a socialist... he attacks the messenger. Obama left further quotes bad mouthing Joe, and McCain's use of him. What's that tell ya?
    LOL he was deceitful and instead of asking a question he created a fictional scenario. Now, please quote Obama's "bad mouthing" of Joe the not so much a plumber.
    You want to know what McCain's use of him tells us? That, McCain tried everything including pandering to the ignorance of the sheeple by elevating a liar in his effort to bring down Obama, since it was obvious he couldn't beat him on merit.

    Let's give you a Gold Star and paste it on your forehead. You're a real trooper for the cause.
    Yup, the cause of humanity. Thanks for the star.

    Look... Obama revealed who he is with three UNSCRIPTED MOMENTS:

    1. Clinging to their guns and religion.
    2. Spread the wealth around.
    3. We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK
    1. Candid and honest
    2. A caring Human
    3. Not a greedy, polluting pig who doesn't give a **** about people, but rather, A leader determined to lead the world by example.

    What's your beef with any of that?

    Only one moment was required, and Joe the Plumber scored the money quote.
    Only if you're an ignorant fool who doesn't understand what he was saying or a partisan hack who ignores the truth in favor of pandering to the lowest common denominator in our society.

    To watch the vultures in the press dig into Joe was a spectacle. Incredible really. Finally someone does the job the press should be doing and HE GETS INVESTIGATED!
    Well, it started with a simple, who is this guy that McCain and Palin are exhalting? And when they took the initial look see, they found some interesting discrepancies which prompted further investigation. Don't you think it's McCain's fault for dragging the guy out into the public? No? Go figure.

    Obama... An American radical. Socialist.
    And the best man for the job.

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    That's not what you said.
    Your statement of opposition to the legislation of mroality had no qualifications.

    Given that, why do you not oppose the Welfare State?
    Well, I'm qualifying it now since you're pressing me to be more exact. Now what?

    It is based on the moral position that "it is the right thing to do" -- indeed, it is based on the Christian moral value of Charity.
    No, it's societies moral value. Xians have no exclusive claim to doing the right thing and in fact have a long history of doing the wrong thing so again I say, it's not xian values.

    If you oppose the legislation of morality, as you do, you must then oppose said welfare state.
    My opposition to legislating morality is more an opposition to legislating xian morality and my opposition legislating social morality is not static. If it's good for the advancement of society then I may consider it.

  4. #434
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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    This is rightwing hyperbole.
    Rightwing hyperbol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Unfortunately, we tried letting people take care of each other and they didn't do it. Please feel free to post some proof of this ridicules assertion So, for the sake and health of our society, the government must take over that responsibility.
    A lie. Welfare was a stop gap measure due to the great depression and was not supposed to continue. Until that time charity was handled by private interests and churches successfully. It was not until that time people became dependent on government welfare. This was an extreme case and the answer was much worse for us down the road.

    Again stealing from someone to give to another is not charity. It is theft by the very definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Since we are the government, we choose, collectively to help out those in need by paying taxes which fund the programs. As I said numerous times, always ignored, we tried it your way and it failed to work. This way seems to be much better, just ask anyone who is getting SS or disability, medicare etc.
    The government took liberties they did not need to. It was feel good legislation that did nothing more but make us more dependent on the government tit. People like you took it hook line and sinker.

    People like me got to retire at 43, because I saved and did what I needed to do to be successful. I did not need the government to do ****. I don't need SS, medicare or anything else for that matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Survival of the fittest huh? What are you a caveman? Why can't you consider the plight of the less fortunate?
    Who are you to say I don't? You don't know anything about me really. SO nice assumption boss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Does anything else factor into your opinion, like opportunity, bigotry, racism, class...? Basically you're saying that the weak or less intelligent deserve poverty. How enlightened of you.
    I am a black man who was born in poverty on the south side of Chicago in 1962. So I think I know just about anyone can do it if I did. No exceptions, no excuses for healthy adults, none.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Good, so we've finally gotten to a point where we can stop calling it charity because really, your mantra is that lazy people will get your tax dollars. The truth being that it's not charity, it's social morals where those who have, help those without instead of the conservative view which seems to be, get it if you can and to hell with my neighbor if necessary. If the private institutions of charity worked there would be no poverty... look around, it doesn't work and never has, people are just too greedy.
    Well look how well government sponsored wealth distribution worked...

    "WASHINGTON, D.C. - Trustees for the government's two biggest benefit programs warned that Social Security and Medicare are facing "enormous challenges" with the threat to Medicare's solvency far more severe. - Social Security, Medicare in trouble | Business | KING5.com | News for Seattle, Washington

    "Everyone understands why Congress was so reluctant to cut physicians’ fees. Reimbursements for primary care physicians are very low—so low that 30 percent of Medicare recipients who are looking for a new medical home can’t find one. Cut fees, and fewer doctors will take Medicare patients. The AMA, seniors and the AARP are all up-in-arms. Few politicians like to disappoint this trio. - Health Beat: The Trouble with Medicare Advantage

    "Basically, Greenspan said that Social Security as we know it today cannot continue to exist. Down the road, there will not be enough money to pay folks the benefits they are due, so some changes will need to be made.
    - Social Security Woes and You, What It All Means To You - CBS News

    "In 2006 the poverty rate for minors in the United States was the highest in the industrialized world, with 21.9% of all minors and 30% of African American minors living below the poverty threshold.[7] Moreover, the standard of living for those in the bottom 10% was lower in the U.S. than other developed nations except the United Kingdom, which has the lowest standard of living for impoverished children in the developed world.[8] According to a 2008 report released by the Carsey Institute at the University of New Hampshire, on average, rates of child poverty are persistently higher in rural parts of the country relative to suburban areas and share similar rates with many central cities. - Poverty in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I could go on for hours like this.

    If the government institutions of charity worked there would be no poverty

    Hmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    I do care for freedom of choice, to the point where that choice is harmful to our nation as it is currently. Too much choice to rip off the general populace.
    Then you are doomed to forever be a governmental stooge.

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Make choices...lol, you mean horde what they can squeeze out of their workers? When a CEO makes 300-400% more than his lowest paid worker then he his taking advantage of that worker. He is stealing from that workers labor by not paying a fair wage for his labor.
    You love getting bitch slapped around these threads don't you. You do understand that the contract upon hiring dictates pay and in a free and open society you are paid what you accept right? If you as an employee are worth more than you move on or else accept your pay, socialism and nannyism take away those choices. But hey, intelligent free thinking people are incapable of that decision on their own according to you, right? Do let us know when you are ready to join us in adult land.
    That kind of disparity creates wage gaps and social unrest as the poor get poorer and the rich get richer. This kind of wage gap has never been so prevalent as it is now.
    I want to nominate this for asanine discredited talking point of the century. No part of that statement is even remotely true, so do us a favor and retire that tripe will you.
    What's wrong with getting back to a little less disparity?
    Apparently you've never seen the wage scale from the industrial revolution, but hey, if you advocate going back in history.....whatever.
    Conservatives always want to turn the clock back to the good old days, but in the good old days we had regulation and shame.
    The good ol' days, as you like to call them represent when the government of the U.S. followed the rule of law of the United States, you are advocating changing the system to make yourself and likeminded group thinkers feel good about yourselves.

    And of course as I pointed out, you conservatives seem to think that a CEO getting a little less will go to people who won't work.
    Typically does.
    Naturally you skip over all the people who are working but struggle to make ends meet because their wage hasn't increased proportionally with the CEOs or inflation or lost their job because the CEO wanted to make MORE money by shipping that job to cheaper labor overseas.
    Do you want some french cries with that little wah-burger of yours.
    So instead of a decent wage with benefits they have to take a lower paying job or two to try and make it up.
    Last I checked you don't HAVE to do anything of the sort in a free society.
    Obama NEVER said we need to take from the rich and give it to people who won't work, he said we need to (I'm paraphrasing) take a little off the top (ie. go back to the rates in the past, like under Reagan) and increase everyone else so that they can afford to buy the things the being sold which keeps the economy going.
    It's still theft, no matter how flowery the language, but I guess you would say someone who mugged you was just "taking a little off the top"
    When consumers can't afford the good or services being sold we end up where we are now.
    I thought you said earlier that materialism was bad. So it's good when it justifies theft? Or is it just good when people buy goods with other people's earnings?
    This Christmas sucked for retailers... why? People don't have money to spend. Give the money to the people at the top so that they can create more jobs over seas is a losing cycle.
    Most of that money you are bitching about comes bulk assets, which means budget money is lost, this means people will be budgeted out, it's basic economics.

    Yeah sure, and Joe the not so much a plumber was going to buy his bosses business...
    That was the plan.


    So let me make sure I understand this, you get all bent about me making assumptions about you and then you turn around and make assumptions about me...
    You make it so easy.

    I am aware of who HPL is. Your claim that his populist position was a political ploy to get votes and not a real concern for the poor is nothing but rightwing pessimism and slander. Got any proof of your claim?
    I live in Louisiana, so I know the history, we are still suffering from Long politics, need proof, visit the state.


    And what would cause people to start losing jobs? Oh because the CEOs and BoD want to maintain THEIR income so they will cut their work force instead of their own compensation?
    They are the bosses, so it's their decision, and guess what, the little guy gets pinched, whether you like it or not that is reality.
    Hmmm... Instead we should just let the rich get richer and the poor get poorer until there is a French Revolution here in America?
    Why don't you actually see what taxation does to a household budget before you start spouting off on who's keeping the little guy down.
    Good plan for society you have there. Seems to me like we've been trying it your way for quite some time and it looks like it's ****ed things up pretty good.
    Good try, we haven't practiced constitutional free market economics in this country since the early 1900's, the problems mainly started after Wilsonian democracy.


    In other words, go ahead and take from the middle class and the poor instead? By means of lower wages and benefits? How enlightened...
    If you're gonna say in other words, at least grasp the original one's, you totally missed the point.


    And if that system proves to be inadequate and people starve and die like in other countries, then what? Seems like we went down that road before which is what prompted Welfare, SS, medicare, etc. or did you have a plan B for when plan A fails... again.
    Wellfare rolls increased since "The Great Society" and poverty increased, so obviously your sides little programs don't work.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    This is rightwing hyperbole. Unfortunately, we tried letting people take care of each other and they didn't do it. So, for the sake and health of our society, the government must take over that responsibility.
    In other words you want the government to be a self appointed babysitter? You do realize this is an arrogant stance right.
    Since we are the government, we choose, collectively to help out those in need by paying taxes which fund the programs. As I said numerous times, always ignored, we tried it your way and it failed to work.
    It worked great when people didn't lose investment money to excessive taxation.
    This way seems to be much better, just ask anyone who is getting SS or disability, medicare etc.
    LOL! Medicare is going broke, SS is broke, and disability is barely funded. Private retirement plans usually guarantee a return of 3-4% for at least ten years, with some fluxuation after that, SS guarantees a 1% "return" which in truth is nothing but interest, if I tried to sell a 1% guaranteed policy I'd still be in prison.



    I do care for freedom of choice, to the point where that choice is harmful to our nation as it is currently. Too much choice to rip off the general populace.
    So you only agree to choices you and your ilk approve of. Glad you conceded Gobieman's point.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  7. #437
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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    [Slippery Slope]
    Oh really? Please detail that damage for oh... let's say Germany and Sweden. Go.
    http://www.timbro.se/bokhandel/pdf/9175665646.pdf

    Compare the US to the EU, and where would you find the Top 5 EU economies if they were US States? At the bottom... equal to the bottom 5 US States.

    Them's damaged goods by any measure. The bright and resourceful socialist nations in the EU match up with the bottom of our barrel.

    Socialism in the manner these countries has left them vulnerable. Their inflated wages has priced many jobs to other shores. Some just make a short hop across the border.

    When Nokia moved a couple thousand jobs to a neighboring country it was a national scandal. Politicians got all excited, the press worked in a lather. The message to business owners? Don't entertain doing business here; go straight to a neighboring New EU nation and save yourself a lot of hassles, and achieve better profit margins.

    In the States a move like this would garner press, but not a national outcry.

    German Doctors are leaving the country in significant numbers. Doctors educated for...LOL... "free" (no such thing)... are finding their skills reduced to the minimum, and their incomes slashed in the pursuit of lowering costs. They're simply foot soldiers for the state. So they leave for more profitable waters.

    This leaves the country in a bad position as the medical profession isn't an attractive option, and many that are trained at home take their tax payer subsidized education elsewhere. That's what happens when a Dr. working in a hospital makes about 27,000 Euro per year!

    In this case the state run operation drives costs down, and rations its medical services. In private sector jobs, unions-government have priced their labor to unattractive levels.

    Gerhard Schroeder promised to cut unemployment in half during his reign, and that during a decent international economic climate. Instead the good socialist in the socialist system doubled unemployment.


    LOL he was deceitful and instead of asking a question he created a fictional scenario. Now, please quote Obama's "bad mouthing" of Joe the not so much a plumber.
    You want to know what McCain's use of him tells us? That, McCain tried everything including pandering to the ignorance of the sheeple by elevating a liar in his effort to bring down Obama, since it was obvious he couldn't beat him on merit.
    I could care less if he was a plumber or not. It's the merit of the questions that count. They were excellent questions that outed Obama.

    That escapes the supporters of B.O.

    The questions were excellent, and Obama's answers revealing. Revealed him to be a socialist at heart.



    Well, it started with a simple, who is this guy that McCain and Palin are exhalting? And when they took the initial look see, they found some interesting discrepancies which prompted further investigation. Don't you think it's McCain's fault for dragging the guy out into the public? No? Go figure.
    Obama came TO HIS HOUSE. And Joe simply asked a guy hunting for votes some really good questions.

    The manner Joe was investigated and reported about should have been reserved for the candidates. Instead they attacked Joe.
    Last edited by zimmer; 01-21-09 at 12:04 AM.

  8. #438
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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Well, I'm qualifying it now since you're pressing me to be more exact. Now what?
    Simple.
    You are OK with legislation of YOUR version of morality.
    Given that, you haven't a leg to stand on when someone else wants to legislate THEIR version of morality.

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    It must be a little insulting for you to see Obamaniacs characterizing his election as some sort of "velvet" revolution. I think Brokaw, today, was the most recent to do so drawing an equivalency between Obama's inauguration and Czech revolution.

    Seriously, what is happening to otherwise reasonable people that they're compelled to suggest that the peaceful transition of power from Bush to Obama is some equivalent to escaping tyranny?
    I would say it is correct to say we are escaping fascism, and that is something to revel in.

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