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Thread: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Maybe we as humans would be better off with a little less materialism and a little more charity?
    Not your call, or the governments, forcing people to part with what they have legally and morally earned is theft.
    Why do you think its necessary for one person, who builds the roads your company uses to make its profits, should not have a decent standard of living while the guy who uses the road has more than he'll ever need?
    That's the contract signed, and the choices made lead up to that.
    Couldn't he do with a little less so that the laborer has a little more?
    Not your call.
    How horrible it must be to only have 400 million in assets instead of 500 million so that joe the plumber can make 40k instead of 30k?
    Again, not your call.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Maybe we as humans would be better off with a little less materialism and a little more charity? Why do you think its necessary for one person, who builds the roads your company uses to make its profits, should not have a decent standard of living while the guy who uses the road has more than he'll ever need? Couldn't he do with a little less so that the laborer has a little more? How horrible it must be to only have 400 million in assets instead of 500 million so that joe the plumber can make 40k instead of 30k?
    Who says I don't think they deserve a decent standard of living? That's not the point at all, but merely a liberal heart-string pulling talking point. Why do you feel that babies shouldn't live? I don't believe in socialism/communism, and neither should you. Read the actual account of the Piligrims in their first year.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Maybe we as humans would be better off with a little less materialism and a little more charity?
    This would be great if it were not taken under threat of force by the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Why do you think its necessary for one person, who builds the roads your company uses to make its profits, should not have a decent standard of living while the guy who uses the road has more than he'll ever need?
    Each person earns according to his ability. I don't remember anything in the Constitution about a "right" to never be poor.

    In a free society it is not anyones call to make. Charity should be voluntary and not forced, otherwise it is no longer charity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Couldn't he do with a little less so that the laborer has a little more? How horrible it must be to only have 400 million in assets instead of 500 million so that joe the plumber can make 40k instead of 30k?
    It is his right to make that call, not the governments.

    It is obvious you care little for freedom of choice and would rather see forced wealth distribution like early Communist Russia etc.

  4. #424
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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Obviously you don't understand socialism, socialists, redistribution of wealth, Obama's ideas on this and probably a lot more. It's ignorance plain and simple.
    Having lived in socialist Utopian countries like Germany, Finland and Sweden... Former east Germany and Poland after The Wall came down... Mexico and Kanuckistan... I know socialism all too well. I don't need a Kool-Aid consumer to tell me about socialism. I've seen its damage first hand on many fronts and degrees.

    Obama is a socialist. He believes in government. "Spreading the wealth around" for him does not mean the private sector creating opportunity, it means government coercion, intrusion, penalization (for success), and the iron hand of government redistributing said wealth.


    In otherwards he lied when he could have just asked a question.
    LOL... he asks a question that gets Obama to reveal who he is, and typical of a socialist... he attacks the messenger. Obama left further quotes bad mouthing Joe, and McCain's use of him. What's that tell ya?

    Let's give you a Gold Star and paste it on your forehead. You're a real trooper for the cause.

    You want Obama to be a whacko leftwing commie socialist so if you can squeeze any bit of that from anything he or anyone who knows him then you're satisfied that you were right about him.
    Look... Obama revealed who he is with three UNSCRIPTED MOMENTS:

    1. Clinging to their guns and religion.
    2. Spread the wealth around.
    3. We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK

    Only one moment was required, and Joe the Plumber scored the money quote.

    To watch the vultures in the press dig into Joe was a spectacle. Incredible really. Finally someone does the job the press should be doing and HE GETS INVESTIGATED!

    Go figure.

    Obama... An American radical. Socialist.
    Last edited by zimmer; 01-20-09 at 02:19 AM.

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    No, I do not have a plenary (good word BTW) opposition to morality. I oppose society being stifled by antiquated religious morality.
    That's not what you said.
    Your statement of opposition to the legislation of mroality had no qualifications.

    Given that, why do you not oppose the Welfare State?

    So please tell me what is so bad about the welfare state?
    It is based on the moral position that "it is the right thing to do" -- indeed, it is based on the Christian moral value of Charity. If you oppose the legislation of morality, as you do, you must then oppose said welfare state.

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    No, those things are not progressive and stifle the progress of our society.
    Obviously.

    And so, we're back to it being Ipretty clear that forcing morality on others is unacceptable only when --you-- disagree with the morality being forced.

    If you DO agree with that morality, you have no problem forcing others to conform.

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    [QUOTE=LaMidRighter;1057891621]
    You don't have a point, you merely want to call people who want to make choices with their earinings greedy for not wanting government to steal from them to redistribute to people who won't earn a living.
    Make choices...lol, you mean horde what they can squeeze out of their workers? When a CEO makes 300-400% more than his lowest paid worker then he his taking advantage of that worker. He is stealing from that workers labor by not paying a fair wage for his labor. That kind of disparity creates wage gaps and social unrest as the poor get poorer and the rich get richer. This kind of wage gap has never been so prevalent as it is now. What's wrong with getting back to a little less disparity? Conservatives always want to turn the clock back to the good old days, but in the good old days we had regulation and shame.

    And of course as I pointed out, you conservatives seem to think that a CEO getting a little less will go to people who won't work. Naturally you skip over all the people who are working but struggle to make ends meet because their wage hasn't increased proportionally with the CEOs or inflation or lost their job because the CEO wanted to make MORE money by shipping that job to cheaper labor overseas. So instead of a decent wage with benefits they have to take a lower paying job or two to try and make it up. Obama NEVER said we need to take from the rich and give it to people who won't work, he said we need to (I'm paraphrasing) take a little off the top (ie. go back to the rates in the past, like under Reagan) and increase everyone else so that they can afford to buy the things the being sold which keeps the economy going. When consumers can't afford the good or services being sold we end up where we are now. This Christmas sucked for retailers... why? People don't have money to spend. Give the money to the people at the top so that they can create more jobs over seas is a losing cycle.

    I don't care what you see in my post, I give to charitable causes constantly, many times at a sacrifice to a night out, I give more than money, I give time as well, so your opinion and the government's opinion of where my money should go....past what is constituitional is none of your business.
    Yeah sure, and Joe the not so much a plumber was going to buy his bosses business...

    You really need to read more history, start with Huey P. Long, there was no "charity", rather they were populist methods of ensuring votes to the campaigns.
    So let me make sure I understand this, you get all bent about me making assumptions about you and then you turn around and make assumptions about me...

    I am aware of who HPL is. Your claim that his populist position was a political ploy to get votes and not a real concern for the poor is nothing but rightwing pessimism and slander. Got any proof of your claim?

    Ironically, people will start losing jobs when taxes go up, so more people will need welfare, sounds more like a sinking ship than a rising tide.
    And what would cause people to start losing jobs? Oh because the CEOs and BoD want to maintain THEIR income so they will cut their work force instead of their own compensation? Hmmm... Instead we should just let the rich get richer and the poor get poorer until there is a French Revolution here in America? Good plan for society you have there. Seems to me like we've been trying it your way for quite some time and it looks like it's ****ed things up pretty good.

    You want people's lives to improve, stop taking from those who hire, hint, they aren't the middle class or poor.
    In other words, go ahead and take from the middle class and the poor instead? By means of lower wages and benefits? How enlightened...

    So let private charities and citizens do the job, they are better at it.
    And if that system proves to be inadequate and people starve and die like in other countries, then what? Seems like we went down that road before which is what prompted Welfare, SS, medicare, etc. or did you have a plan B for when plan A fails... again.

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Who says I don't think they deserve a decent standard of living? That's not the point at all, but merely a liberal heart-string pulling talking point. Why do you feel that babies shouldn't live? I don't believe in socialism/communism, and neither should you. Read the actual account of the Piligrims in their first year.
    Well, you do actually by advocating the system that got us where we are.

    Who said I feel babies shouldn't live? I think mothers should make the choice about their own bodies, not me.

    WTF does the pilgrims account of their first year have to do with the topic at hand??

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Having lived in socialist Utopian countries like Germany, Finland and Sweden... Former east Germany and Poland after The Wall came down... Mexico and Kanuckistan... I know socialism all too well. I don't need a Kool-Aid consumer to tell me about socialism. I've seen its damage first hand on many fronts and degrees.

    Obama is a socialist. He believes in government. "Spreading the wealth around" for him does not mean the private sector creating opportunity, it means government coercion, intrusion, penalization (for success), and the iron hand of government redistributing said wealth.

    Look... Obama revealed who he is with three UNSCRIPTED MOMENTS:
    It must be a little insulting for you to see Obamaniacs characterizing his election as some sort of "velvet" revolution. I think Brokaw, today, was the most recent to do so drawing an equivalency between Obama's inauguration and Czech revolution.

    Seriously, what is happening to otherwise reasonable people that they're compelled to suggest that the peaceful transition of power from Bush to Obama is some equivalent to escaping tyranny?

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This would be great if it were not taken under threat of force by the government.
    This is rightwing hyperbole. Unfortunately, we tried letting people take care of each other and they didn't do it. So, for the sake and health of our society, the government must take over that responsibility. Since we are the government, we choose, collectively to help out those in need by paying taxes which fund the programs. As I said numerous times, always ignored, we tried it your way and it failed to work. This way seems to be much better, just ask anyone who is getting SS or disability, medicare etc.

    [quote]Each person earns according to his ability. I don't remember anything in the Constitution about a "right" to never be poor.[quote]
    Survival of the fittest huh? What are you a caveman? Why can't you consider the plight of the less fortunate? Does anything else factor into your opinion, like opportunity, bigotry, racism, class...? Basically you're saying that the weak or less intelligent deserve poverty. How enlightened of you.

    In a free society it is not anyones call to make. Charity should be voluntary and not forced, otherwise it is no longer charity.
    Good, so we've finally gotten to a point where we can stop calling it charity because really, your mantra is that lazy people will get your tax dollars. The truth being that it's not charity, it's social morals where those who have, help those without instead of the conservative view which seems to be, get it if you can and to hell with my neighbor if necessary. If the private institutions of charity worked there would be no poverty... look around, it doesn't work and never has, people are just too greedy.

    It is obvious you care little for freedom of choice and would rather see forced wealth distribution like early Communist Russia etc.
    I do care for freedom of choice, to the point where that choice is harmful to our nation as it is currently. Too much choice to rip off the general populace.

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