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Thread: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

  1. #361
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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    If there is an absence of an anti dancing law does that force anti dancers to dance the night away?
    Not sure how that relates to my statement.

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Not at all sure how you make that connection.

    The welfare state is people being forced to provide charity to others because, boiled down, 'its the right thing to do' -- that is, it is forcing morality onto others.

    So, if you disagree with legislating morality at any level and if you believe that people can't have morality thrust upon them, then you must oppose the welfare state.
    independent_thinker2002
    No response?
    Last edited by Goobieman; 01-16-09 at 11:48 AM.

  3. #363
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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    What is really the difference if dancing is prohibited locally or at the state level or at the federal. The way I see it it is still a forced morality of one group on another. The only difference is scale.
    At the local level, one can make the choice and has a legitimate ability to exact change in legislation they find unjust.

    At teh state level, they have the same thing, but to a lesser degree and they would need to move furhter in order to do so.

    At the federal level, all ability to choose to remain in country has been removed and they have no legitimate ability to have their voices heard as they can only vote for 3 out of 535 representatives no matter where they live in the nation.


    The scale is not the only difference, the ability to exact change is significantly reduced as the sphere of influence increases in scale.

    That's why I am in favor of this type of legislation only being enacted at the most local of levels, not at the greater levels. At each expansion of geographic authority, we reduce the rights of the people to influence their own demographic and further reduce their personal choices.

    If I need to move one town over in order to dance, my life is interupted far less significantly than if I need to change states or even countries.

    Conversely, if I want to have the right to live in a dance-free environment, my life would be far less intereupted if I only had to move one town over to do so.

    If enough people want the right to live in a dance-free environment enough, towns will be created that cater to this desire.

    Who am I to say they don;t have the right to live in a dance-free environment?

    This is where I differ form most people. I define rights as including both views. I think people have a right to choose live in a place that has the same morality as they do. I don't think we have a right to prevent them from making this choice.

    I believe that the right to choose extends far further than those choices I think are appropriate or valid.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Sage

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Not sure how that relates to my statement.
    I find dancing perfectly moral anti-dancers don't. In the absence of a law what are the anti-dancers forced to do?

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    This is just a stunt for PJTV like it was for the rest of the media. It wasn't the fact that he asked a question, it's the fact that the media created a huge wave out of it in order to debias it's pro obamaness.
    Last edited by MBona; 01-16-09 at 11:52 AM.

  6. #366
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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I find dancing perfectly moral anti-dancers don't. In the absence of a law what are the anti-dancers forced to do?
    Still not sure how this relates to what I said.

    The jist of my statement is that those that preach that 'you cannot legislate morality' almost always support legislating morality of some sort -- what they -really- oppose is the legislation of morality they don't agree with.

    This is illustrated by the exchange between IT2002 and myself.

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post

    Who am I to say they don;t have the right to live in a dance-free environment?
    They can make a choice to live in a dance free envir. Join groups that are anti dancing and agree with their views. But I see no reason why my next door neighbor should force anti dancing on me.

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Not at all sure how you make that connection.

    The welfare state is people being forced to provide charity to others because, boiled down, 'its the right thing to do' -- that is, it is forcing morality onto others.

    So, if you disagree with legislating morality at any level and if you believe that people can't have morality thrust upon them, then you must oppose the welfare state.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    independent_thinker2002
    No response?
    Sorry, I missed your post.

    I think a case can be made for helping out those who can't help themselves without it being a moral decision. I think society benefits from this regardless of whether it is "right" or "wrong".

    It's cheaper to provide preventive health care than to let a health issue become something major and then they can't pay so the cost gets passed on to everyone else. Should education be pay as you go?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  9. #369
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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Sorry, I missed your post.
    No prob.

    I think a case can be made for helping out those who can't help themselves without it being a moral decision. I think society benefits from this regardless of whether it is "right" or "wrong".
    So... legislating morality IS OK -- so long as you think it is a good idea.

    Your opposition to legislating morality is, therefore, situational rather than absolute.

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    Re: Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No prob.


    So... legislating morality IS OK -- so long as you think it is a good idea.

    Your opposition to legislating morality is, therefore, situational rather than absolute.
    I don't think it's legislating morality, unless you mean that "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is the morality supported by the social contract. Then I guess you have a point. But that wasn't what I was getting at. Taxes are a necessary evil.

    I suppose all laws can be interprited to be legislating morality. That isn't what I am talking about though. What my original comment was intended to mean was that legislating victimless behaviors is what I stand against.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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