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Thread: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

  1. #71
    Banned Iriemon's Avatar
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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    How am I distorting your position? You said deficit spending was ok based on x and y,
    Please cite the post were I stated this.

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    Please cite the post were I stated this.
    "Short term deficit spending in the midst of a contraction makes arguable sense"

    x= short term (a rather broad generalization I might add)

    y=in the midst of a contraction.

    For others, short term deficit spending in the middle of a war makes "arguable sense".

    So only the x and y differ, but otherwise you are just a pass the bucker like those you have spent the like 8 years railing against.

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Once, again, you proved that your original point was wrong. Conservatives were not "mum" as you alleged.
    No, I said they were generally. I didn't claim every one. I stand by my assertion.

    No strawmen, just responding to your actual words.
    Then quote my actual words.

    Hmmm, you're saying that my comment that you stated that Bush racked up the additional $5 trillion in debt is false. Well, what did you say?

    I get a kick out of how conservatives, who generally sat mum while the Bush administration slashed taxes and ran up $5 trillion in debt, are now of a suddent deciding they are budget hawks now that a Dem is in charge.

    Now, if that is not attributing the blame to Bush for running up %5 trillion in debt, well, I don't know what it says then.
    No, after I posted the treasury figures, you stated the amount was irrelevant.
    My post of those figures was directly in response to your request:

    You claimed earlier that Bush (again, ZERO mention of Congress) ran up five trillion in debt. Link, please.

    The figures I posted showed in fact that $5 trillion in debt has been run up from the date Bush took office.

    IMO that is directly relevant to your request.

    You haven't showed this. I'll concede that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are contributing to the debt...that's self-evident. But you left out the tax cuts from this above statement when you have cited it before as a primary driver. Why?
    I did not leave it out. Read it again.

    And why don't you similarly blame Democrats for signing on these legislative spending bills? Why is only Bush or sometime the Republican Congress uniquely to blame?
    Democrats didn't control Congress until 2007.

    Andf why is it you do not attribute the tax cuts to revenues falling? The income tax rates was cut about 15%. Even the WH OMB acknowledged they reduced revenues.

    Yet you come up with every implausible othe reason -- it was spending, it was the economy it was 9/11. Yet you refuse to acknowledge the obvious that if you slash the effective rate of tax, it will decrease the tax revenues the Govt brings in. Why?

    Right, non-discretionary spending is a flat line soending item, right?
    Of course not. But those programs existed and their growth roughly mirrors the growth in the economy. They also grew in the 90s, and notwithstanding that, there was a surplus budget until the Bush administration took control.

    Those programs by and large did not significantly change.
    Last edited by Iriemon; 01-08-09 at 02:29 PM.

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    "Short term deficit spending in the midst of a contraction makes arguable sense"
    Correct. I also stated in that same post: "I disagree with Obama that it should require huge deficits for years to come."

    And eslewhere in this thread I wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    Deficits certainly aren't necessary when the economy is running well -- which is why running up trillions in debt in 2002-2007 was such a tragerdy.

    In times of economic crises, there is a valid argument for deficit spending as a means to improve the economy. The evidence of whether such actions is actually beneficial is subject to debate, I agree, but there is at least an argument for it.

    I didn't have a big problem with Bush providing rebates in 2001 to try to juice the economy a bit. My prolem was that the tax cuts were made permanent, and even after the economy was running well the government continued to add 1/2 trillion to the debt annually.
    Thank you for conceding you misquoted me. As is now clear, I did not state that deficits in a recession were OK but that there was a valid argument for it. There is debate about this argument, and I personally doubt that fiscal stimulus a la deficit spending accomplishes anything worthwhile in the necessary time frame. However, it can be an important factor in restoring confidence in the economy, something that is badly needed right now.

    x= short term (a rather broad generalization I might add)
    In economic and financial circles it is generally accepted to mean within one year.

    y=in the midst of a contraction.

    For others, short term deficit spending in the middle of a war makes "arguable sense".

    So only the x and y differ, but otherwise you are just a pass the bucker like those you have spent the like 8 years railing against.
    Your opinion is noted.

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    Correct. I also stated in that same post: "I disagree with Obama that it should require huge deficits for years to come."
    who cares? You agree with passing the buck so long as we remain in a contraction. You and the one differ on the length of the contraction, not with passing the buck.

    Thank you for conceding you misquoted me.
    sorry, but no.

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    who cares? You agree with passing the buck so long as we remain in a contraction. You and the one differ on the length of the contraction, not with passing the buck.

    sorry, but no.
    Repetitive.

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    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    who cares? You agree with passing the buck so long as we remain in a contraction. You and the one differ on the length of the contraction, not with passing the buck.
    What it comes down to is that huge deficits are OK as long as:
    - The Dems have power
    - They say they have a 'good reason' for running them.

    (Note that only Dems can have a 'good reason' for running them)

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    What it comes down to is that huge deficits are OK as long as:
    - The Dems have power
    - They say they have a 'good reason' for running them.

    (Note that only Dems can have a 'good reason' for running them)
    No that is not what it comes down to. What it comes down to is a return on INVESTMENT. What have we walked out with in the past 8 years as compared to the Clinton 8 years? After Clinton's 8 a new industry was firmly in place, the internet.

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    No that is not what it comes down to. What it comes down to is a return on INVESTMENT.
    Thats the "good reason".

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    Sage

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Thats the "good reason".
    I'd say investing in new ideas that create value is a good idea.

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