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Thread: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

  1. #61
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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    Oh yes, I have been a vocal critic about deficits for a long time; long before it because popular for conservatives to do so after Dems were elected.
    Here you go, again, Walter (as in Mondale).

    Yet another reference to unnamed conservatives. Please stop lying. Conservatives have been very vocal about deficit spending for a long time.

    You confused me with someone who thinks its OK to "pass the buck". That would more fit those who were willing to let the US go trillions into debt under the Bush administration for the sake of their tax cuts.
    You claimed earlier that Bush (again, ZERO mention of Congress) ran up five trillion in debt. Link, please.

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    I didn't confuse you, I took your words - you said in a contraction it is ok to do deficit spending, which is passing the buck.
    No, I did not say that. Please quote me directly if you cannot make an argument against me without distorting my words and position.

    I said there was an argument for deficits during an economic contraction as a means for stimulating the economy. Whether you agree with it or not, this argument has been around for decades.

    I further stated that I personally questioned whether such attempts at fiscal stimulus had much effect. I have also stated my view that notwithstanding such arguments, there is no justification for deficits when the economy is growing, and further that I objected to Obama saying the country needed to run huge deficits for years. I additionally stated from early in the campaign that I disagreed with Obama's plan to give tax cuts at a time he's inhereting huge deficits from the Republican administration.

    So no, I never said in a contract it is OK to run deficit spending, but if there is ever a time when such a policy is arguably justified, it is in that situation.

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    Re: Final nail in the coffin

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    (psst, you're talking to Goobieman)
    Hey!
    Did you figure out what countries have some of their parts seperated away by other countries?

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Here you go, again, Walter (as in Mondale).

    Yet another reference to unnamed conservatives. Please stop lying. Conservatives have been very vocal about deficit spending for a long time.
    Dick Cheney is not a conservative now?

    I don't recall conservatives objecting to the tax cuts the then conservative Bush administration passed when it didn't slash spending as well. Well, John McCain did, but many conservatives claim he's not very conservative.

    You claimed earlier that Bush (again, ZERO mention of Congress) ran up five trillion in debt. Link, please.
    Total debt of the US Govt

    01/22/2001 5,728,195,796,181.57
    01/06/2009 10,638,425,746,293.80

    Bureau of the Public Debt: Homepage

    That's an increase in $4.910 trillion. Not quite 5 trillion, I'll concede; but the Bush administration has another two weeks; they may reach it.
    Last edited by Iriemon; 01-08-09 at 11:43 AM.

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    Dick Cheney is not a conservative now?
    You commented on Page 1 of this thread:
    I get a kick out of how conservatives, who generally sat mum while the Bush administration slashed taxes and ran up $5 trillion in debt, are now of a suddent deciding they are budget hawks now that a Dem is in charge.

    When asked who you were referring to you quoted a single conservative, Cheney saying, "You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don't matter."

    I responded by noting that your cited example demonstrated that your comment was inaccurate as it shows at least one conservative was not "mum" as you claimed conservatives had been.

    We can ignore that you've presented just a single example as evidence of conservatives doing something.

    I don't recall conservatives objecting to the tax cuts the then conservative Bush administration passed when it didn't slash spending as well. Well, John McCain did, but many conservatives claim he's not very conservative.
    You don't recall because you're ignorant and again, you place singular blame on Bush for budgets that he had, in fact, presented slower spending growth then the Congress ultimately passed.

    Recall the whining that Democrats engaged in when they falsely argued that spending was being "cut" when, in fact, Bush was proposing to slow down the rate of spending increases.

    Please don't pretend that Bush was singularly responsible for the budgets that were enacted.

    While conservatives didn't object to the tax cuts they certainly did object to the spending increases, particularly and forcefully against new program spending like NCLB and Medicare Rx. Examples of this resistance to spending:

    USATODAY.com - Budget-conscious maverick on move

    Budget hawks say deficit plan won't be enough | Oakland Tribune | Find Articles at BNET

    'Deficit Hawks' Circling Highway Bill - Los Angeles Times

    I just randomly selected 2004 to start. You want more? I haven't even touched the pundits from National Review or the Weekly Standard, yet.

    Total debt of the US Govt

    01/22/2001 5,728,195,796,181.57
    01/06/2009 10,638,425,746,293.80

    Bureau of the Public Debt: Homepage

    That's an increase in $4.910 trillion. Not quite 5 trillion, I'll concede; but the Bush administration has another two weeks; they may reach it.
    The issue is not the amount. The issue is your assertion that Bush racked this up.

    You're deliberately and completely ignoring the impact of non-discretionary spending increases that are adding to this debt. As well, again, per the usual, you're attributing sole responsibility to Bush and ignoring Congress's spending responsibility.

    Why?

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    You commented on Page 1 of this thread:
    I get a kick out of how conservatives, who generally sat mum while the Bush administration slashed taxes and ran up $5 trillion in debt, are now of a suddent deciding they are budget hawks now that a Dem is in charge.

    When asked who you were referring to you quoted a single conservative, Cheney saying, "You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don't matter."

    I responded by noting that your cited example demonstrated that your comment was inaccurate as it shows at least one conservative was not "mum" as you claimed conservatives had been.

    We can ignore that you've presented just a single example as evidence of conservatives doing something.
    What Killed Off The GOP Deficit Hawks?
    "The Republicans are now the ones making excuses for big deficits"


    What Killed Off The GOP Deficit Hawks?

    Deficits Don't Matter

    The American Spectator : Deficits Don't Matter

    Reagan Policies Gave Green Light to Red Ink

    washingtonpost.com: Reagan Policies Gave Green Light to Red Ink

    You don't recall because you're ignorant and again, you place singular blame on Bush for budgets that he had, in fact, presented slower spending growth then the Congress ultimately passed.

    Recall the whining that Democrats engaged in when they falsely argued that spending was being "cut" when, in fact, Bush was proposing to slow down the rate of spending increases.

    Please don't pretend that Bush was singularly responsible for the budgets that were enacted.
    Please don't create strawmen to argue. I've note that it was the Republican Congress that passed the tax cuts and military build ups that caused the deficits. The tax cuts, military build-up, and Iraq war certainly were Bush administration iniatives, no matter who much you apologize for it.

    The issue is not the amount. The issue is your assertion that Bush racked this up.
    False. Once again you show an inability to follow the issues. Try reading the thread before you jump in and lecture me about what the issue is. If you still can't get it, I'll point it out to you.

    You're deliberately and completely ignoring the impact of non-discretionary spending increases that are adding to this debt. As well, again, per the usual, you're attributing sole responsibility to Bush and ignoring Congress's spending responsibility.
    Why?
    Simple. It was Bush and the Republicans that press through tax cuts, passed the Drug Company Profit Enhancement Act, doubled military spending, and started an unnecessary war in Iraq. These things are responsible for the bulk of the deficits, as I've showed.

    Non-discretionary spending was largely in place in 2000 when we had a surplus budget. With the exception of the Drug act passed in 2001, I'm not aware of any significant new non-discretionary programs that have been passed that would explain why the budget went from a surplus at the end of the Clinton administration to trillions more debt under the Bush administration.

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    What Killed Off The GOP Deficit Hawks?
    "The Republicans are now the ones making excuses for big deficits"

    What Killed Off The GOP Deficit Hawks?

    Deficits Don't Matter

    The American Spectator : Deficits Don't Matter

    Reagan Policies Gave Green Light to Red Ink

    washingtonpost.com: Reagan Policies Gave Green Light to Red Ink



    Please don't create strawmen to argue. I've note that it was the Republican Congress that passed the tax cuts and military build ups that caused the deficits. The tax cuts, military build-up, and Iraq war certainly were Bush administration iniatives, no matter who much you apologize for it.



    False. Once again you show an inability to follow the issues. Try reading the thread before you jump in and lecture me about what the issue is. If you still can't get it, I'll point it out to you.



    Simple. It was Bush and the Republicans that press through tax cuts, passed the Drug Company Profit Enhancement Act, doubled military spending, and started an unnecessary war in Iraq. These things are responsible for the bulk of the deficits, as I've showed.

    Non-discretionary spending was largely in place in 2000 when we had a surplus budget. With the exception of the Drug act passed in 2001, I'm not aware of any significant new non-discretionary programs that have been passed that would explain why the budget went from a surplus at the end of the Clinton administration to trillions more debt under the Bush administration.
    Why is it always up to the Republicans to worry about deficits? What about Democrats, don't they have any obligation too?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Why is it always up to the Republicans to worry about deficits? What about Democrats, don't they have any obligation too?
    In my opinion they should be.

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    No, I did not say that. Please quote me directly if you cannot make an argument against me without distorting my words and position.
    How am I distorting your position? You said deficit spending was ok based on x and y, yet for years you have been railing on others that felt it was ok to do deficit spending based on y and z

    The only difference is the x and y. Some think wars are valid reasons, you think forcing our way out of a contraction is ok. You’re just a pass the buck kind of guy, the difference is only in when you think it is acceptable.

    This next 4 years will certainly expose the partisan hacks that have been full of **** for the last 8 years.

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    Re: Obama warns about years of trillion-dollar deficits

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    What Killed Off The GOP Deficit Hawks?
    "The Republicans are now the ones making excuses for big deficits"


    What Killed Off The GOP Deficit Hawks?

    Deficits Don't Matter

    The American Spectator : Deficits Don't Matter

    Reagan Policies Gave Green Light to Red Ink

    washingtonpost.com: Reagan Policies Gave Green Light to Red Ink
    Once, again, you proved that your original point was wrong. Conservatives were not "mum" as you alleged.

    Second, I have presented to you several examples of conservatives being hawkish. In other words, again, conservatives were not "mum" as you have asserted.

    Third, citing Republicans, who may also be conservative, dismissing the importance of deficits ain't a reflection of being "mum."

    Fourth, I think you'd agree that the deficits being projected as a result of current government policies and Obama's proposed new spending represent a wholly new deficit environment both in type (removing financial capital from the private sector versus tax cuts that keep private dollars in the private sector) and scope (the enormity of the currently projected deficits - blowing away the previous post-WWII high in 1983 when compared to GDP).

    Please don't create strawmen to argue. I've note that it was the Republican Congress that passed the tax cuts and military build ups that caused the deficits. The tax cuts, military build-up, and Iraq war certainly were Bush administration iniatives, no matter who much you apologize for it.
    No strawmen, just responding to your actual words.

    False. Once again you show an inability to follow the issues. Try reading the thread before you jump in and lecture me about what the issue is. If you still can't get it, I'll point it out to you.
    Hmmm, you're saying that my comment that you stated that Bush racked up the additional $5 trillion in debt is false. Well, what did you say?
    I get a kick out of how conservatives, who generally sat mum while the Bush administration slashed taxes and ran up $5 trillion in debt, are now of a suddent deciding they are budget hawks now that a Dem is in charge.

    Now, if that is not attributing the blame to Bush for running up %5 trillion in debt, well, I don't know what it says then.

    Simple. It was Bush and the Republicans that press through tax cuts, passed the Drug Company Profit Enhancement Act, doubled military spending, and started an unnecessary war in Iraq. These things are responsible for the bulk of the deficits, as I've showed.
    You haven't showed this. I'll concede that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are contributing to the debt...that's self-evident. But you left out the tax cuts from this above statement when you have cited it before as a primary driver. Why?

    And why don't you similarly blame Democrats for signing on these legislative spending bills? Why is only Bush or sometime the Republican Congress uniquely to blame?

    Non-discretionary spending was largely in place in 2000 when we had a surplus budget. With the exception of the Drug act passed in 2001, I'm not aware of any significant new non-discretionary programs that have been passed that would explain why the budget went from a surplus at the end of the Clinton administration to trillions more debt under the Bush administration.
    Right, non-discretionary spending is a flat line soending item, right?

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