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Thread: Leon Panetta to be nominated CIA Director

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    Re: Leon Panetta to be nominated CIA Director

    Was Bush 41 an intelligence insider?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
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    Re: Leon Panetta to be nominated CIA Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Ditto my friend.

    Thanks for all the links that in no way show that he stated he would unequivically change every facet of how washington worked and would use nothing but people without experience in washington for his appoitned positions.

    Moving goal posts now?

    Where did I or he state that he would "unequivically [sic] change every facet of how washington worked"?


    I did not claim he made that claim....


    And thank you...that's my point all along. To you. Your interpritation. Your assumption. Your belief from the words he said and the way he portrayed himself. Just like peoples assumption, interpritation, and belief about Bush and the Iraq War and 9/11.
    Ok then I showed you where posters like IT, Iriemon, and Aps stated they believed as I did.

    He was changing from all politics as usual not just bush.


    I posted articles to back this up. Everyone from Brits, left, right, Socialists, alike. It is common knowledge.




    Then yes, you seem to fall into category two that I wrote...unless you thought everyone he'd appoint would have no connection to any other democrat, never worked in washington, etc.

    Never stated that. However he has picked essentially a proto-typical democrat cabinet, no change whatsoever from the usual suspects.


    What happened to "warren buffet"?




    The carvelle thing is a great example. Carvelle was known as a master at attack, mud slinging politics which...by Reverend's own youtube video...Obama seems to be decrying as "typical Washington Politics". Bringing carvelle on wouldn't be a change from that, Obama was trying to say his campaign was.
    YES! EXACTLY! but hillary is no better than a carville. She is the most inside of inside politics.


    Politics is a gigantic sweeping term, that can run the gammot from policy to presentation.

    I would question you aps if you weren't a bit disallusioned by the pick of Hillary because it seemed not a change to "typical politics", as it seems likely that it was a pick of someone for political appeasement. At the same time, I could understand wanting to "see how it goes", as "typical" washington politics would've also meant appointing someone as far left on the war as Obama was to your top foreign post...and yet he picked someone to the right of him (which is still left ). So in some ways, it was not a change, in others, it was.

    I disagree. Had he picked someone as anti-war as himself, I would not be able to levy this "politics as usual" charge. Simple as that. Face it. he is no different than any other president thus far as far as picking the washington insiders for jobs....

    This as I have proven, is not what he campaigned on.




    I think some republicans here are intentionally twisting Obama's message to an utmost extreme to get a "gotcha" situation. If he appoints someone with ANY washington experience at all, they cry "Its not change, its not change!". However if he appointed someone WITHOUT any washington experience they'd cry out "He's not experienced, he's not experienced".

    What does this "right wingers are meanies" crap have to do with our discussion here? I think like many on all sides think Pannetta was a moronic pick as was Hillary. These are clinton retreads and not the change he promised.

    Had Obama picked someone else for Sec State, someone outside the beltway, who was far left, I would not be able to argue the change angle, and indeed argue the liberal angle. What is the problem with this?

    General Jones on the other hand was a brilliant pick.


    There is more to a nomination beyond where a guy worked to tell you if its like the standard things.

    My issue is not with believing this to be a bad appointment, I believe it is.

    My issue isn't even saying negative things about Obama's promise of change. (Hell, I did that myself in my first post. Because this was EXACTLY the type of Change I thought Obama was truly meaning, but managed to present himself in such a way that people just naturally THOUGHT he was meaning more)

    My issue is with attacking people for not being "disallusioned" with Obama when he's not completely broken with his campaign statements and with it still possible to look at what he's done and come up with a reasonable explanation that its in line with what he's said. My issue is with people trying to say he flat out lied about change, but defend Bush didn't lie, when to reach a conclussion that he actually intentionally purposefully knowingly mislead one must make assumptions about what kind of Change he meant exactly.

    Aps, just admitted that this change was not what was promised. And I find it disingenuous given my links of others to now monday morning quaterback and change what they said about this change to something that fits reality as opposed to what is reality.
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    Re: Leon Panetta to be nominated CIA Director

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    You have to change Washington from the inside. Do you think alienating Congress would bring about any change? He has to reach out to the establishment to an extent in order to get anything done. I'm not happy about the Hillary appointment, but I understand it. I doubt she would have taken a lesser role and he needs her allies on board in order to accomplish things.



    So you still think Obama is going to change how business is done in washington as he promised?
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    Re: Leon Panetta to be nominated CIA Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    So you still think Obama is going to change how business is done in washington as he promised?
    To an extent. Change is a gradual process. I don't think he'll outlaw lobbyists in his first 100 days or anything.

    We'll just have to wait and see.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
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    Re: Leon Panetta to be nominated CIA Director

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    To an extent. Change is a gradual process. I don't think he'll outlaw lobbyists in his first 100 days or anything.

    We'll just have to wait and see.



    Thank you as well.



    Now are you disapointed at some of his picks, Were you expecting at least some washington outsiders, not clinton retreads (I know slightly loaded).......



    I mean what is different about his cabinet as far as where they came from compared to previous administrations?


    Does it at least appear or can you see how it could appear to many that he is as of right now, "politics as usual"?
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    Re: Leon Panetta to be nominated CIA Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Thank you as well.



    Now are you disapointed at some of his picks, Were you expecting at least some washington outsiders, not clinton retreads (I know slightly loaded).......



    I mean what is different about his cabinet as far as where they came from compared to previous administrations?


    Does it at least appear or can you see how it could appear to many that he is as of right now, "politics as usual"?
    I see how people can attack him for "politics as usual". It's an easy, lazy attack. Unless we have a dictatorship, there will always be politicing. Let's say he nominated a bunch of college professors instead. How loud would the drumbeat be that he is appointing a bunch of people without experience. Isn't that the knock on Panetta?

    No matter who any President puts in their cabinet, people will criticize. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

    We'll see what Obama's policies will be. These people do serve at his pleasure. If he follows bad advice, the buck will stop with him.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Leon Panetta to be nominated CIA Director

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    I see how people can attack him for "politics as usual". It's an easy, lazy attack. Unless we have a dictatorship, there will always be politicing. Let's say he nominated a bunch of college professors instead. How loud would the drumbeat be that he is appointing a bunch of people without experience. Isn't that the knock on Panetta?

    ho is it lazy? How is it easy? He made the promise, not I. He campaigned on change, and many bought it...

    Panetta is an insider without experience, wholly different.


    No matter who any President puts in their cabinet, people will criticize. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

    We'll see what Obama's policies will be. These people do serve at his pleasure. If he follows bad advice, the buck will stop with him.


    When will be the appropriate time to critisize him for his picks that seem not inline with his campaign promises?
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    Re: Leon Panetta to be nominated CIA Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    ho is it lazy? How is it easy? He made the promise, not I. He campaigned on change, and many bought it...

    Panetta is an insider without experience, wholly different.
    I get that he's an insider. I think to an extent that it's good to have some people with White House experience. It helps him prevent mistakes made in previous administrations. He really doesn't have much room for error. Bush 41 was an insider with no intelligence experience. I can see the value of placing someone loyal to The Presidency in that position over someone who is loyal to a quasi-rogue agency.





    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    When will be the appropriate time to critisize him for his picks that seem not inline with his campaign promises?
    You can criticize now. It's all speculation though. Until his policies are enacted, it will be nothing more than speculation. You'll have plenty to criticize soon I am sure. You'll actually have ammunition once his policies take effect. Right now, there isn't much to back up the claims. Yes, the players are insiders, but will they conduct business as usual, or will they conduct business according to Obama's directive? We don't know. It's like betting on the Super Bowl. We just don't know until they play the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Leon Panetta to be nominated CIA Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'm sorry, this thread is about that? Nice attempt to derail. Not going to bother with it. Want to blather on and on about it go ahead, you're pretty simple to ignore when you're yammering on about pointless things.
    Of course you missed the point, it's convenient to your perverse equivalency you're running here.

    I merely provided a clear example of Obama lying to demonstrate that Obama was not exaggerating or abusing rhetorical license as Bush might be guilty of regarding citing intelligence reports.

    Are you going to simultaneously complain that he didn't appoint someone with exerience, and THEN complain he appointed someone from Washington? This isn't using the same "washington players" that was previously the type used for the CIA, instead he went with a person with a more business and management background. I'm not saying its the right choice, but it is a different direction. And its not a "lie".
    Panetta is a longtime Washington insider, exactly the sort of Washington player that Obama railed against when he promised change to avoid the same result you get when you continue using the same Washington players.

    And Panetta is only one of several like Hillary, Rahm, Holder, and his other two recent picks at DoJ who were also Clinton appointees.

    This is why I asked if those Democrats who voted for Obama's promise of "change" felt that they were lied to.

    Did he indicated he'd utilize ALL new players? Did he indicated they'd only be new to politics, to democratic politics, or that they'd be new ones other than the republicans we've been seeing? Congrats, assuming, just like the left.
    He was unequivocal. His message was clear. New players to play a new game to realize new outcomes.

    Instead, we get Clinton retreads and as we're now seeing with his economic plans, the same old Democratic model of priming the pump to spur economic activity.

    Same players, same game, same outcome.

    Awwww how, CUTE! You made the same statement you're relying on, without a link backing it up, and without any context to it AT ALL, in really really big letters! Isn't that just special.
    I didn't make that statement.

    Obama made that statement.

    You didn't catch that?

    Doesn't really prove a damn thing except my point that you're taking a statement and assuming and interpreting it to your will and then stating he's "lieing". Thanks.
    My goodness...

    The guy ran on a platform of change. He consistently argued that he was bringing change. He argued that he'd use new players.

    There's nothing to assume into his own campaign declarations and promises.

    Now, excuse me while I continue to ignore your hyper partisan, hypocritical blather in exchange for reading useful, worth while posts.
    Hyper-partisan?

    What? Like Democrats aren't similiarly complaining about this?

    Why are you ignoring the plain reading of Obama's own campaign declarations?

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    Re: Leon Panetta to be nominated CIA Director

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    I get that he's an insider. I think to an extent that it's good to have some people with White House experience. It helps him prevent mistakes made in previous administrations. He really doesn't have much room for error. Bush 41 was an insider with no intelligence experience. I can see the value of placing someone loyal to The Presidency in that position over someone who is loyal to a quasi-rogue agency.







    You can criticize now. It's all speculation though. Until his policies are enacted, it will be nothing more than speculation. You'll have plenty to criticize soon I am sure. You'll actually have ammunition once his policies take effect. Right now, there isn't much to back up the claims. Yes, the players are insiders, but will they conduct business as usual, or will they conduct business according to Obama's directive? We don't know. It's like betting on the Super Bowl. We just don't know until they play the game.



    You are right, it's like betting on the superbowl and obama says he won't choose the Detroit lions to make it there cause they are losers, and forms a new team and picks all the players from wait for it....... The Detroit lions.....



    The writing is on the wall and it is two stories high.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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