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Thread: Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

  1. #41
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    Re: Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Congress appropriates money. That money is not dictated.
    What? Okay, dude, really, ... this is embarrassing.

    Congress authorizes spending and appropriated federal dollars on a line-item basis. I.e., how that money is spent is explicitly dictated by Congress.

    They give X to NASA, but they don't stipulate what research or programs that X amount of money is spent on. If they don't like it, they could decrease X; but they don't. Once the money is appropriated, NASA spends it on the things the President wants done.
    Again, no. Congress appropriates federal dollars on a line-item basis specifically directing how dollars are spent.

    NASA is under the mandate of the President, it does as the President tells them to.
    Nope.

    If the President says "manned mission to Mars", NASA has to work towards a manned mission to Mars.
    NASA cannot spend any federal dollars on it until Congress says they can.

    Congress won't slash their budget because of it. The entire point was that NASA should no longer be under the mandate of the President. If we're going to have NASA, it needs to be run by the scientists. I don't see why I should spend my money on a bunch of worthless programs that aren't scientifically viable.
    The entire point here is exposing your ignorance.

    Example, when Kennedy said NASA was going to the Moon, NASA didn't just start working on it. Congress had to appropriate funding for it.

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    Re: Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    What? Okay, dude, really, ... this is embarrassing.

    Congress authorizes spending and appropriated federal dollars on a line-item basis. I.e., how that money is spent is explicitly dictated by Congress.



    Again, no. Congress appropriates federal dollars on a line-item basis specifically directing how dollars are spent.



    Nope.



    NASA cannot spend any federal dollars on it until Congress says they can.



    The entire point here is exposing your ignorance.

    Example, when Kennedy said NASA was going to the Moon, NASA didn't just start working on it. Congress had to appropriate funding for it.
    I think I'm going to take the word of NASA personnel over yours.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #43
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    Re: Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You said that you agree that merging of the branches gives NASA somewhat of a military character to it.

    You also stated as your primary definition of 'militarize' as 'to give a military character to'.

    Hard to see how you dont agree that Obama looks to militarize space.

    And, given that you did not respond, I take it that you agree that the Bush administration did indeed not look to 'weaponize' space.
    Somewhat of a military character does not translate into 'Space is militarized'. I pulled the definition from the first site I found, after investigating others the order of the definitions seems varied.

    The Bush administration did look to weaponize space. The reason it has been out of news lately is due to the Democratly controlled house and tie in the Senate.

    The Real Star Wars: Bush Revives Missile Defense Plan

    He's left the door open for weaponizing space since his first election, he just never got around to it until it was too late.

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    Re: Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    I said the US should make preparations, such as the integration of NASA with the military but not weaponize space until diplomacy has failed.
    That was not clear in your original comments. You seemed to be suggesting that the US wait rather than prepare now in response to China's declared plans to go to space.

    The reason we should way is because China weaponizing space is not a certainty and should you treat it like one you are promoting a "cold-war like mentality".
    That's what the cold war mentality is? Promoting something that you disagree with? I never would have guessed that.

    China successfully weaponizing its space program may not be certain, but China ha declared this as a national objective. You're saying we should wait to prepare until "diplomacy fails".

    Lets ignore for a moment what the diplomatic question is...why wait until after the fact?

    This means you assume the worst and attempt to prepare for it militarily, promoting military spending instead of diplomacy.
    What is the diplomatic issue? Begging China not to weaponize space?

    And why can't both be done simultanously?

    The fact is diplomacy will fail if the US insists on military dominance in every area.
    Your fetish with diplomacy would result in US interests being subservient to avoiding offending other nations.

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    Re: Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    Somewhat of a military character does not translate into 'Space is militarized'. I pulled the definition from the first site I found, after investigating others the order of the definitions seems varied.
    Ah. So, when the definition doesnt fit what you want to say, you change it.
    Good enough. Thanks.

    The Bush administration did look to weaponize space.
    How, exactly, did it do that?
    Remember, that for the Bush administration to 'weaponize' space, it must first not have already been 'weaponized', and that the program that 'weaponizes' it must have been initiated by the Bush administration.

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    Re: Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    That was not clear in your original comments. You seemed to be suggesting that the US wait rather than prepare now in response to China's declared plans to go to space.



    That's what the cold war mentality is? Promoting something that you disagree with? I never would have guessed that.

    China successfully weaponizing its space program may not be certain, but China ha declared this as a national objective. You're saying we should wait to prepare until "diplomacy fails".

    Lets ignore for a moment what the diplomatic question is...why wait until after the fact?



    What is the diplomatic issue? Begging China not to weaponize space?

    And why can't both be done simultanously?



    Your fetish with diplomacy would result in US interests being subservient to avoiding offending other nations.
    Now you're just being obtuse. I tried to start afresh by clarifying my stance, which I thought was made clear by my first post, but you've decided to carry on a little conversation with yourself. Carry on.

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    Re: Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think I'm going to take the word of NASA personnel over yours.
    You have not presented any NASA personnel that describes the process as you claim it is.

    Meanwhile, from NASA: FY 2009 Budget Request.

    When you open the file you'll that budget dollars requested are requested for specific programs. Not a single, ultimate dollar amount which would then be controlled by the President as he sees fit.

    Just like the HUD budget. When you open it you'll see specific dollars for specific programs. Again, not a single, ultimate amount that, if approved, is controlled by the President.

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    Re: Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    Now you're just being obtuse. I tried to start afresh by clarifying my stance, which I thought was made clear by my first post, but you've decided to carry on a little conversation with yourself. Carry on.
    I addressed your comments directly.

    Your problem is...?

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    Re: Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Ah. So, when the definition doesnt fit what you want to say, you change it.
    Good enough. Thanks.


    How, exactly, did it do that?
    Remember, that for the Bush administration to 'weaponize' space, it must first not have already been 'weaponized', and that the program that 'weaponizes' it must have been initiated by the Bush administration.
    I was trying to show that one site does not maintain the definitive authority fo the English language. Clearly you're too Stupid to understand this.

    Are you now arguing that space is already weaponized?

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    Re: Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    I was trying to show that one site does not maintain the definitive authority fo the English language. Clearly you're too Stupid to understand this.
    Ah. The reversion to childish insults.
    Thanks for the concession of the point.

    Are you now arguing that space is already weaponized?
    I asked you to support your claim that the Bush administration did look to weaponize space.
    I was simply reminding you of what you would need to include to do this.
    Can you support your assertion, or not?

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