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Thread: Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

  1. #11
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    Re: Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Global warming is seen much better in longer intervals of time, rather than just 30-40 years.
    Not really. People haven't had the capability to affect the environment and greenhouse gasses in any significant way for much longer than that. I'd say that graph is pretty damned good evidence that sea ice isn't significantly affected by climate change

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    Re: Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Global warming is seen much better in longer intervals of time, rather than just 30-40 years.


    So there would be no effect? Then why did they claim we would lose the ice and it would be due to global warming?


    Here is but one example

    Exclusive: Scientists warn that there may be no ice at North Pole this summer - Climate Change, Environment - The Independent

    The disappearance of the Arctic sea ice, making it possible to reach the Pole sailing in a boat through open water, would be one of the most dramatic and worrying examples of the impact of global warming on the planet. Scientists say the ice at 90 degrees north may well have melted away by the summer.

    So if it did have no ice, proof of global warming butfollowing the same pattern for 30 years, inconclusive?????
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 01-05-09 at 03:42 PM.
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    Re: Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    Not really. People haven't had the capability to affect the environment and greenhouse gasses in any significant way for much longer than that. I'd say that graph is pretty damned good evidence that sea ice isn't significantly affected by climate change
    AGW? Sure.

    Sometimes I can't figure out whether people are referring to AGW (man-made) versus global warming (natural).
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    Re: Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    So there would be no effect? Then why did they claim we would lose the ice and it would be due to global warming?


    Here is but one example

    Exclusive: Scientists warn that there may be no ice at North Pole this summer - Climate Change, Environment - The Independent




    So if it did have no ice, proof of global warming butfollowing the same pattern for 30 years, inconclusive?????
    I've made none of those claims.

    I'll defer you to my last post.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
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    Re: Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    I've made none of those claims.

    I'll defer you to my last post.


    I said "they" not you.


    This is a discussion.


    I am curious as to how the scientists so revered by GW types can be so wrong and it is downplayed.
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    Re: Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

    Ahh the deniers, continuing on their crusade to attempt and discredit science by cherry picking data and attempting to falsify. From the usual suspects no less.
    So the daily tech article - which made no conclusions - claims that in this winter sea ice has returned to levels of 1979 - seems like then that there's no AGW?
    Except for a big problem. Global warming didn't just start in 1979, it started well before that.
    The daily tech article cites the Arctic Climate Research of the University if Illinois.
    a simple click to that site gave this graph


    And this one from National snow and ice data center


    What daily tech did was a classic case of cherry picking data. Attempting to obfuscate the reality of AGW by a set data that seems to suggest there is no melting.
    So they disregard summer data in turn for simply that of December - when ice is supposed to form.
    For further read the source website Arctic Climate Change
    as well as from the National Snow and Ice data center.
    Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis

    So yes deniers, I'm claiming you guys are flat out lying - again.
    Last edited by jfuh; 01-13-09 at 02:54 PM.

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    Re: Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

    The graphs are of two entirely different data sets. The Daily Tech graph is of sea ice anomaly. The graph you posted from U of I is sea ice extent.

    The anomaly ( do you need a definition of anomaly? ) is the same now as it was in 1979, just as the article claims.

    What were you saying about dishonesty??

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    Re: Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    The graphs are of two entirely different data sets. The Daily Tech graph is of sea ice anomaly. The graph you posted from U of I is sea ice extent.

    The anomaly ( do you need a definition of anomaly? ) is the same now as it was in 1979, just as the article claims.

    What were you saying about dishonesty??
    ______________
    Quote Originally Posted by jfuh View Post
    What daily tech did was a classic case of cherry picking data. Attempting to obfuscate the reality of AGW by a set data that seems to suggest there is no melting.
    So they disregard summer data in turn for simply that of December - when ice is supposed to form.
    For further read the source website Arctic Climate Change
    as well as from the National Snow and Ice data center.
    Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis

    So yes deniers, I'm claiming you guys are flat out lying - again.

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    Re: Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    The Daily Tech graph is of sea ice anomaly.
    Sea ice anomaly is measured by the red line, but there are two others on that graph. Look at the legend: "daily sea ice area" and "daily sea ice mean".

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    Re: Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

    Quote Originally Posted by jfuh View Post
    Ahh the deniers, continuing on their crusade to attempt and discredit science by cherry picking data and attempting to falsify. From the usual suspects no less.
    So the daily tech article - which made no conclusions - claims that in this winter sea ice has returned to levels of 1979 - seems like then that there's no AGW?
    Except for a big problem. Global warming didn't just start in 1979, it started well before that.
    The daily tech article cites the Arctic Climate Research of the University if Illinois.
    a simple click to that site gave this graph


    And this one from National snow and ice data center


    What daily tech did was a classic case of cherry picking data. Attempting to obfuscate the reality of AGW by a set data that seems to suggest there is no melting.
    So they disregard summer data in turn for simply that of December - when ice is supposed to form.
    For further read the source website Arctic Climate Change
    as well as from the National Snow and Ice data center.
    Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis

    So yes deniers, I'm claiming you guys are flat out lying - again.
    Another well informed post demonstrating your excellent grasp of a complex subject.

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