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Thread: Dems Usher in New Era of Dull Scandals

  1. #81
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    Re: Dems Usher in New Era of Dull Scandals

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is news to the US army, who lists its birthday as June 1775.
    Prior to and during the founding of the United States, military forces were supplied by untrained militia commanded by the states. When the Continental Congress first ordered a Continental Army to be formed, it was to be made up of militia from the states. That army, under the command of General George Washington, won the Revolutionary War, but afterwards was disbanded.

    However, it soon became obvious that a standing army and navy were required. The United States Navy (and the Marine Corps) began when Congress ordered several frigates in 1794, and a standing army was created, however it was still only minimal and it relied mostly on contributions from state militia in times of war. The Coast Guard was created in 1790.
    United States Armed Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    As I've said, it didn't start with a standing army. The Continental Army used by Washington wasn't a standing army. Congress established the Navy (as is their power) in 1794, and that's the beginning of our standing army. While the President may now be in CinC of the standing army, it's not his to do with as he pleases. Only Congress can declare war, if we're not under declaration of war the President can't just take the troops any ol' place he wants and start overthrowing governments. He can oversee the executive duties of the military during peace times, but he can't commit acts of war (rightfully) without declaration from Congress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    In order to pass anything in Congress, you need a quorum. A handful of surviving members isn't sufficient.
    There's probably some crazy line of succession or something like that in case the wholly improbable event that you laid out ever came to fruition. I'll take the constraints on the use of the military over some highly improbable event any day of the week.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Dems Usher in New Era of Dull Scandals

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    As I've said, it didn't start with a standing army. The Continental Army used by Washington wasn't a standing army.
    The Continental Congress stablished a standing army in June of 1775. It has been in place ever since.

    There's probably some crazy line of succession or something like that in case the wholly improbable event that you laid out ever came to fruition.
    No, there isn't. Each state has its own method for replacing a deceased congressman. This takes days or weeks, not the minutes necessary to react to the situation poresentd to you.

    I'll take the constraints on the use of the military over some highly improbable event any day of the week.
    So, you DO argue that the President cannot order a counterstrike w/o a DoW.

    Amazing.

  3. #83
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    Re: Dems Usher in New Era of Dull Scandals

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The Continental Congress stablished a standing army in June of 1775. It has been in place ever since.
    Is that why history tells us the standing army was established 1794? That the army Washington had was disbanded?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Dems Usher in New Era of Dull Scandals

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Authorization to use force does not carry the same constraints as a declaration of war.
    And your basis for this conclusion is...what?

    The Constitution does not indicate what form such a declaration must take. It simply grants to Congress the power to declare war. Congress can "declare" that any damn way it wants to.

    And nowhere in the Constitution does it say that Congress can "authorize use of force", it says that Congress can declare war.
    You're being obtuse.

    If you're going to stick to a literal reading of the power to declare war then intellectual honesty requires you to argue that Congress can only declare war, i.e., issue such a declaration and that's it. But you insist that Congress has more power, the power to constrain the making of war. But the Constitution doesn't grant such authority to Congress.

    Please stop making this stuff up as you go along.

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    Re: Dems Usher in New Era of Dull Scandals

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Is that why history tells us the standing army was established 1794? That the army Washington had was disbanded?
    The US army seems to disagree with you:
    Army Birthdays
    June 14th: The Birthday of the U.S. Army

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    Re: Dems Usher in New Era of Dull Scandals

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The US army seems to disagree with you:
    Army Birthdays
    June 14th: The Birthday of the U.S. Army
    The US army can disagree all they want. The Continental Army Washington used was first drawn from the militia; second disbanded after the war. The standing army didn't come into place till 1794 when Congress made the Navy and army. At that time the army was still mostly comprised of called up militia. I don't care what the US Army says, history is quite clear on this one.

    Furthermore, I think it would be understandable for the US Army to have it's "birthday" on the day we officially started fighting Britain with our army. That's our first major military assault as a people separate from England. But the existence of that particular military was not continuous at the time. It came and went a few times, called up to put down revolutions or whatever, disbanded afterward. Standing army came later.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Dems Usher in New Era of Dull Scandals

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The US army can disagree all they want. The Continental Army Washington used was first drawn from the militia; second disbanded after the war. The standing army didn't come into place till 1794 when Congress made the Navy and army. At that time the army was still mostly comprised of called up militia. I don't care what the US Army says, history is quite clear on this one.
    Thats right -- I forgot!
    You know more about the history of the US Arny than the US Army does.
    Sorry 'bout that.

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    Re: Dems Usher in New Era of Dull Scandals

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Thats right -- I forgot!
    You know more about the history of the US Arny than the US Army does.
    Sorry 'bout that.
    I apparently know more than you do. As I said, it's reasonable to call that the birth day, the Continental Army provided the ground work for what would become our standing army. But the majority of it was disbanded in 1783 after the Treaty of Paris. Additionally, the Continental Army was our first army and with it we won our independence. I don't see any reason not to have it as the birthday of the army. But the Continental Army was not the standing army, that didn't come till later. After the Treaty of Paris and the disbanding of the Continental Army; the Congress created the United States Army. The actual organization which we have today. In 1783 when it was created, it still wasn't a full standing army; rather when needed for service it required the State militias to be called up into it. It wasn't until later in which it became a full standing army.
    Last edited by Ikari; 01-06-09 at 01:28 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Dems Usher in New Era of Dull Scandals

    Is someone still maintaining that the President is not the Commander-in-Chief?

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    Re: Dems Usher in New Era of Dull Scandals

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Is someone still maintaining that the President is not the Commander-in-Chief?
    No -- fortunately, he was forced to admit his error on that one.

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