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Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

Prehaps this incursion won't just be a quick strike.
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That still doesn't answer the question of what they will actually get out of this. There really is not a way of militarily crushing a resistance like what Palestine has been fostering since its inception. If anything, it further radicalizes those being invaded. People generally don't support someone that bombed their family.
 
EgoffTib said:
More than likely the removal of HAMAS from power. My disagreement is with the way Israel is handling this removal of power. Attacking Mosques with civilians inside for prayer service is low, even for Zionists.
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Pardon me, but the mosque that has been bombed (and I assume you mean this) was used as a stock for weapons. Besides, it was attacked late at night - so unless Muslims hold a special sixth prayer at midnight, I think your logic in assuming that civilians were killed is flawed. Please do take a note of the second explosion shown in the video, around 0:22, which is the ammunition stock lighting up.

Also, how can you compare 9/11 to this conflict? By attacking the WTC, Muslim terrorists deliberately targeted civilians, while the IDF does its best to avoid it - either by striking at night, with low-impact bombs and by gathering as much information as possible, so as to minimize damage to civilians. I don't see this kind of concern when these terrorists shoot rockets at Israeli towns, not army bases.

Sadly, war is war - and people get killed at war. Hamas has brought about this, they had it coming to them and they have been warned repeatedly. It is unfortunate that civilians get killed - but in war you strike with weapons of war. And if Hamas chooses to hide amongst civilians, then civilians are going to be killed, no matter how much we try. That is frankly, their problem, and their choice of handling the situation - or electing Hamas in the first place.

I am very satisfied of the manner in which the IDF has handled this situation so far. Very professional, very well planned and executed. I am for the ground attack, provided it serves a true purpose which will be fully executed. I don't want to see our troops getting killed for nothing. And I wish them luck and safety wherever they go.
 
EgoffTib said:
I do not care? I'm the one arguing against attacking them. Skew my words if it makes you feel tingly inside.
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Nope. I'm mirroring your skewed position so you can see it for what it is.
 
Tal said:
Pardon me, but the mosque that has been bombed (and I assume you mean this) was used as a stock for weapons. Besides, it was attacked late at night - so unless Muslims hold a special sixth prayer at midnight, I think your logic in assuming that civilians were killed is flawed. Please do take a note of the second explosion shown in the video, around 0:22, which is the ammunition stock lighting up.

Also, how can you compare 9/11 to this conflict? By attacking the WTC, Muslim terrorists deliberately targeted civilians, while the IDF does its best to avoid it - either by striking at night, with low-impact bombs and by gathering as much information as possible, so as to minimize damage to civilians. I don't see this kind of concern when these terrorists shoot rockets at Israeli towns, not army bases.

Sadly, war is war - and people get killed at war. Hamas has brought about this, they had it coming to them and they have been warned repeatedly. It is unfortunate that civilians get killed - but in war you strike with weapons of war. And if Hamas chooses to hide amongst civilians, then civilians are going to be killed, no matter how much we try. That is frankly, their problem, and their choice of handling the situation - or electing Hamas in the first place.

I am very satisfied of the manner in which the IDF has handled this situation so far. Very professional, very well planned and executed. I am for the ground attack, provided it serves a true purpose which will be fully executed. I don't want to see our troops getting killed for nothing. And I wish them luck and safety wherever they go.
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Here you go:


Al Jazeera English - Middle East - Deaths as Israel hits Gaza mosque
 
Well, it's about time. They shouldn't leave until indoor plumbing and electricity are nothing more than fond memories to the people who are so enamored of the medieval world.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
That still doesn't answer the question of what they will actually get out of this. There really is not a way of militarily crushing a resistance like what Palestine has been fostering since its inception. If anything, it further radicalizes those being invaded. People generally don't support someone that bombed their family.
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Well whats the other option? Allow the "resistance" to continue firing rockets into their country? Eventually, people are going to have to see what is keeping a peaceful solution from happening. If Hamas were removed from power, then I think a solution could be worked out. There cannot be a solution, as long as Hamas has influence and authority with the Palestinian people. The smart ones will get off the tracks, when the train comes through. The dumb ones will lock arms with their brothers and sisters, and get run over.
 
Oftencold said:
Well, it's about time. They shouldn't leave until indoor plumbing and electricity are nothing more than fond memories to the people who are so enamored of the medieval world.
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That sounds fair to the civilians. :doh
 
Laila said:
/Sigh

Here is hoping international pressure gets too much and Isreal withdraws before too many lives are lost
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Why do you think Hamas should remain in power?
 
Well whats the other option?
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What I'm saying is that from the position of the Israeli leadership there is no option. Anything they try is going to be futile in the end.
 
WI Crippler said:
Like I said in a different thread regarding this situation, and endgame has to be the goal here. This circular path of beating up Hamas, and then falling back and signing ceasefires has done nothing for either side in this deal. IMO, Hamas is the cancer that is keeping Palestinian civilians and Israel from reaching a peaceful solution. Their removal is the only thing that can ever bring about a resolution to this problem. Some Palestinians are going to have to die in this, due to the tactics of Hamas using them and their structures as shields.
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Do you think an invasion could reach this goal?

When Israel wanted to get rid of the Fatah, they helped the Hamas to get power in Gaza, and it has worked. Now, if they want to get rid of the Hamas, they could support moderate Palestinians!
 
Laila said:
/Sigh

Here is hoping international pressure gets too much and Isreal withdraws before too many lives are lost
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international pressure should play no role in Israel's right to self defense
 
WI Crippler said:
Why do you think Hamas should remain in power?
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I don't want Hamas in power but i think they should be removed using democracy - the same way they entered.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
What I'm saying is that from the position of the Israeli leadership there is no option. Anything they try is going to be futile in the end.
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So, in essence, you're suggesting that Israel lets Hamas shoot rockets in sovereign Israeli territory? Is this a better option in your opinion?
 
Tal said:
Do you think the IDF shot this mosque just for the hell of it? My points are still valid. Hamas hides amongst civilians. If they choose to tolerate this, they have to pay the price.
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Your point was that a mosque was attacked at night and there was no one there. That point is wrong.
 
DeeJayH said:
international pressure should play no role in Israel's right to self defense
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We'll see how much of a role it plays, It did in 06 and every other conflict.
Why do you think that lady from Israel is all over our news doing interviews and visiting Europe.
 
So, in essence, you're suggesting that Israel lets Hamas shoot rockets in sovereign Israeli territory? Is this a better option in your opinion?
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No I'm saying that no matter what the current leadership in Israel does this conflict is doomed to continue until a fundamental change in the character of Israeli foreign policy happens (which is never).

I'm saying the current leadership in Israel cannot have an answer to the crisis because to resolve the crisis would be to undermine everything for which they stand.
 
Israel attacked a Mosque whilst people was ****ing praying.

They KNEW civilians would be in there yet still attacked, that is killing civilians knowingly - how is that any different than Hamas? It is not different.
 
DeeJayH said:
international pressure should play no role in Israel's right to self defense
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Laila said:
We'll see how much of a role it plays, It did in 06 and every other conflict.
Why do you think that lady from Israel is all over our news doing interviews and visiting Europe.
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notice the use of the word 'should' instead of will
 
DeeJayH said:
notice the use of the word 'should' instead of will
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Ah, my bad.
Its a matter of countdown.

Israel will withdraw, just a matter of when.
 
bub said:
Do you think an invasion could reach this goal?

When Israel wanted to get rid of the Fatah, they helped the Hamas to get power in Gaza, and it has worked. Now, if they want to get rid of the Hamas, they could support moderate Palestinians!
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When, exactly, did Israel support the election of Hamas? You're talking nonsense. From the very first moment Hamas came to power, Israel has announced it has no plans to have direct talks with a terrorist organization not recognizing Israel.

Laila said:
I don't want Hamas in power but i think they should be removed using democracy - the same way they entered.
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Democracy? :rofl What democracy? We're speaking of an organization that hasn't been hesitating to kill fellow Palestinians just for the sake of taking over Gaza. We're talking about an organization that takes control of humanitarian needs and distributes it according to their preference. We're talking about an organization that has violently taken over the Gaza strip back in June. This is not democracy - they may have risen to power with democracy, but this cannot be reversed simply by the people's want.
 
Tal said:
Do you think the IDF shot this mosque just for the hell of it? My points are still valid. Hamas hides amongst civilians. If they choose to tolerate this, they have to pay the price.
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Hamas takes the Palestinian population as hostages.

When a criminal takes hostages in the USA (or everywhere else in the world), what does the SWAT do? What's their main aim?
- is it to rescue the hostage alive and avoid wounding them at any cost, or
- is it to kill the hostage taker at any cost and use shotguns and grenades to do so, no matter what happens to the hostages around him
 
EgoffTib said:
Your point was that a mosque was attacked at night and there was no one there. That point is wrong.
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And yet there's no information as to what was being held in that mosque. I'm sorry for every civilian killed on every side, but there is no way to avoid this.
 
Tal said:
This is not democracy - they may have risen to power with democracy, but this cannot be reversed simply by the people's want.
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You know democracy, the thing when you vote in the person you would like.

Every democratic country ****s up for example, Israel refused to allow journalists in Gaza until a supreme court ruling said otherwise and even then it is restricted. No democracy is perfect
 
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