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Thread: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    That doesn't really matter, though, does it? They were involved in the middle east, which is what caused 9/11, so that means that they are responsible for 9/11 and therefore the deaths of civilians. Everyone that has voted for a politician in the US in the last 60 years is complicit in 9/11, then, according to your logic.

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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    That doesn't really matter, though, does it? They were involved in the middle east, which is what caused 9/11, so that means that they are responsible for 9/11 and therefore the deaths of civilians. Everyone that has voted for a politician in the US in the last 60 years is complicit in 9/11, then, according to your logic.
    you are sadly mistaken in what you consider logic

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    More than likely the removal of HAMAS from power. My disagreement is with the way Israel is handling this removal of power. Attacking Mosques with civilians inside for prayer service is low, even for Zionists.
    Once again, you show you don't really care as much about the worshipers as you do about using them as a way to bash the "Zionists."

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    you are sadly mistaken in what you consider logic
    Hey, it's your logic, not mine.

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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    Once again, you show you don't really care as much about the worshipers as you do about using them as a way to bash the "Zionists."
    I do not care? I'm the one arguing against attacking them. Skew my words if it makes you feel tingly inside.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    SAME LOGIC:

    9/11 is justified; the US targeted their own civilians by being involved in the Middle East.
    That isn't even close to analogous. Israel strikes Hamas targets, which sometimes have civilians in them due to Hamas' loathsome tactics of hiding among innocents. The Twin Towers were purely civilian targets that were hit purely to kill civilians. If you can't see the difference that is very telling.

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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Like I said in a different thread regarding this situation, and endgame has to be the goal here. This circular path of beating up Hamas, and then falling back and signing ceasefires has done nothing for either side in this deal. IMO, Hamas is the cancer that is keeping Palestinian civilians and Israel from reaching a peaceful solution. Their removal is the only thing that can ever bring about a resolution to this problem. Some Palestinians are going to have to die in this, due to the tactics of Hamas using them and their structures as shields.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii
    SAME LOGIC:

    9/11 is justified; the US targeted their own civilians by being involved in the Middle East.
    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad
    At the invitation of the sovereign governments.

    Unless you think the terrorists are the rightful leaders.
    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    That doesn't really matter, though, does it? They were involved in the middle east, which is what caused 9/11, so that means that they are responsible for 9/11 and therefore the deaths of civilians. Everyone that has voted for a politician in the US in the last 60 years is complicit in 9/11, then, according to your logic.
    Sure it matters. Except to the fundamentalists who believe that ALL moderate Arab governments are Jahiliyyah.

    [edit] Jahiliyyah vs. freedom

    This exposure to abuse of power undoubtedly contributed to the ideas in his famous prison-written Islamic manifesto Ma'alim fi-l-Tariq (Milestones), where he advocated a political system the opposite of dictatorship. There Qutb argued:

    * The Muslim world had ceased to be and reverted to pre-Islamic ignorance known as jahiliyyah, because of the lack of sharia law. Consequently all states of the Muslim world are not Islamic and thus illegitimate, including that of his native land Egypt.
    * Rather than rule by a pious few, (or democratic representation [30]), Muslims should resist any system where men are in "servitude to other men" -- i.e. obey other men -- as un-Islamic and a violation of God's sovereignty (Hakamiyya) over all of creation. A truly Islamic polity would have no rulers - not even have theocratic ones - since Muslims would need neither judges nor police to obey divine law. [31] [32] It was what one observer has called "a kind of anarcho-Islam."[33]
    * The way to bring about this freedom was for a revolutionary vanguard [34] to fight jahiliyyah with a twofold approach: preaching, and abolishing the organizations and authorities of the Jahili system by "physical power and Jihaad."

    The vanguard movement would grow until it formed a truly Islamic community, then spread throughout the Islamic homeland and finally throughout the entire world. Islamically-correct Jihaad now being interpreted by Qutb as offensive, no longer "narrowly" defensive as those "defeated by the attacks of the treacherous Orientalists!" believe. [35]

    Qutb emphasized this struggle would be anything but easy. True Islam would transform every aspect of society, eliminating everything non-Muslim. True Muslims could look forward to lives of "poverty, difficulty, frustration, torment and sacrifice." Jahili erzatz-Muslims, Jews and Westerners would all fight and conspire against Islam and the elimination of jahiliyyah.

    Sayyid Qutb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Apparently you believe this, too. But moderate Arabs and Muslims felt differently.

    For decades, politically conscious Arabs had lamented America's tolerance for the ways of Arab autocracy, its resigned acceptance that such are the ways of "the East." There would come their way, in the Bush decade, an American leader willing to bet on their freedom.

    Extra - WSJ.com

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Like I said in a different thread regarding this situation, and endgame has to be the goal here. This circular path of beating up Hamas, and then falling back and signing ceasefires has done nothing for either side in this deal. IMO, Hamas is the cancer that is keeping Palestinian civilians and Israel from reaching a peaceful solution. Their removal is the only thing that can ever bring about a resolution to this problem. Some Palestinians are going to have to die in this, due to the tactics of Hamas using them and their structures as shields.
    "This land operation raises the same question Jonathan Freedman asked about the whole Gaza War, which is whether it is wise and how it will end with any lasting advantage to Israel. Me, I can't see it. The Israelis used to assassinate and attack Hamas when they controlled Gaza, with no success in destroying the movement. So how can they destroy it now when they don't control Gaza and are just making a temporary incursion into a heavily populated, complex territory?"
    Juan Cole

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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    "This land operation raises the same question Jonathan Freedman asked about the whole Gaza War, which is whether it is wise and how it will end with any lasting advantage to Israel. Me, I can't see it. The Israelis used to assassinate and attack Hamas when they controlled Gaza, with no success in destroying the movement. So how can they destroy it now when they don't control Gaza and are just making a temporary incursion into a heavily populated, complex territory?"
    Juan Cole
    Prehaps this incursion won't just be a quick strike.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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