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Thread: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

  1. #191
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    I think it was quite interesting listening to Gordon Brown on the Andrew Marr show today with the way he condemned the situation in Gaza,

    "For the situation to improve Israel needs secure borders and the Palestinians a viable state"

    What i read into that is the preceding part of the statement must happen, to allow the latter to be realised. Hamas must stop the Rocket attacks.

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  2. #192
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    There are no guarantees. But doing something is preferable to simply wishing on the moon.
    I disagree. I don't see any reason to have a war (which inevitably cause innocent casualties) with no clear goal in mind. Simply wanting to "do something" is not a valid reason to go to war, and seems more rooted in emotion than reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah
    Correct me if I am wrong, but the Taliban are still a power in Afghanistan. Does this infer that the initial US invasion was pointless and/or unnecessary?
    No, it infers that the invasion and occupation were incompetently executed. If Israel was actually committed to toppling Hamas, I might be slightly more inclined to support this action (although there would still be much better ways of responding). But Israel has stated that they aren't even going to remove Hamas from power. This is sounding more and more like a repeat of 2006 Lebanon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah
    Depends greatly on time and circumstance. Understandably, Abbas has no desire or intention to be viewed as an Israeli puppet.
    Perhaps. But it's not much more desirable to be viewed as an incompetent leader who is unable to retain control over his own nation. If Hamas was removed, someone would fill the power vacuum and Fatah is the only logical choice.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-04-09 at 05:39 PM.
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  3. #193
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Perhaps. But it's not much more desirable to be viewed as an incompetent leader who is unable to retain control over his own nation. If Hamas was removed, someone would fill the power vacuum and Fatah is the only logical choice.
    Let us not forget that Mahmoud Abbas, the head of Fatah, is the legitimate head of "state" of the PA, not Hamas who violently seized power in Gaza.
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Let us not forget that Mahmoud Abbas, the head of Fatah, is the legitimate head of "state" of the PA, not Hamas who violently seized power in Gaza.
    Of course. But that is irrelevant to whether or not an invasion (and possible occupation) is prudent.
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  5. #195
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You don't seem to get the point that property rules can change with administrations and government.
    You really are an enemy of property aren't you.

    Actually in these area they were usually done by ancient, unwritten custom. None of this changes the fact the Palestinians owned the property and land individually and collectively unless you can suggest that this "change" can rightfully mean it can be wiped out. Which of course would put you in direct opposition to official Catholic teaching.
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    [QUOTE=Ammro;1057870885]Yes. US and Britain are behind most sufferings, miseries, and poverty in our planet. Look for their past and current practices.

    Who hunted and shipped Africans and made them slaves in America. Who used the first Atomic bomb on earth? Who invaded Vietnam? ..etc.

    British is the country of the most black history. They ruled Africa, India, many Middle East countries by force and killed the people who defended them.

    Who created the rotten racial segregation in South African and treated black people as dogs. Please read the western history. Why not do we have to think that history is repeating itself through allegation of democracy, freedom, and terrorism fight.

    This is history of the west culture and you can not deny it. The current scene is a reflection of that history.[/QUO

    I think that if you look at slavery in history,you'll find that most blacks weren't hunted down by the white man.
    Most were sold by their tribesman, to Muslim slave traders who bought them for trinkets from the village elders.

    And as far as the white man ruining, Africa and the Middle East,I guess we did as far as automobiles, phones, tvs, modern medicine ,computers, electricity,plumbing,industry.

    And the biggest one of all is free money in foreign aid.

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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Let us not forget that Mahmoud Abbas, the head of Fatah, is the legitimate head of "state" of the PA, not Hamas who violently seized power in Gaza.
    Hamas siezed power in the Gaza strip through democratic elections, 77% turnout.

    you can vote for whoever you want, so long as we choose them.

    BBC NEWS | Middle East | Hamas sweeps to election victory
    apologies for teh bad sepeeling

  8. #198
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by cheat3 View Post
    Hamas siezed power in the Gaza strip through democratic elections, 77% turnout.

    you can vote for whoever you want, so long as we choose them.

    BBC NEWS | Middle East | Hamas sweeps to election victory
    I have pondered that. Democracy can sure be a double edged sword.

    The same Islamaniac that would argue that American citizens, that fall victim to terrorism, are not "innocent" by extention that they voted for and empowered the people they view as infidels. Yet, the same whacko would argue that all the "collateral damage" caused by Israel upon the "innocent Palestinian" citizens is unjustified.

    I wonder how many Palestianians would vote for Hama's now?
    Last edited by Captain America; 01-04-09 at 11:14 PM.

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  9. #199
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I disagree. I don't see any reason to have a war (which inevitably cause innocent casualties) with no clear goal in mind. Simply wanting to "do something" is not a valid reason to go to war, and seems more rooted in emotion than reason.
    You wouldn't protect your family unless you had a rock solid guarantee of success? Your logic is bullcrap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No, it infers that the invasion and occupation were incompetently executed. If Israel was actually committed to toppling Hamas, I might be slightly more inclined to support this action (although there would still be much better ways of responding). But Israel has stated that they aren't even going to remove Hamas from power. This is sounding more and more like a repeat of 2006 Lebanon.
    The current Israeli Defense Minister - Ehud Barak - is a career soldier. No one criticised 2006 Lebanon more than he did. Do you think he is actually stupid enough to reprise those mistakes? Do you think the Gaza and Lebanon theaters have anything in common? You really are slipping.

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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post

    I wonder how many Palestianians would vote for Hama's now?
    Less than in the previous elections because many got killed.

    But the percentage must be the same, maybe even higher.

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