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Thread: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

  1. #121
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Every country has its day.
    Arabs has had it, Romans, Greeks, then Brits and then very soon ... US will be joining us
    But it seems, not today. We have work to do and can't come lie in the mud with you just now.

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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Tell me, if I am attacked in the street by a deranged madman, even one that I have not always been kind or fair to, would you leave me to my fate or provide some aid?


    How you answer will say a great deal about you and your philosophy.
    Firstly you are of course assuming Israel is in the right. I personally believe a two state solution needs to be found but I always consider Israel the aggressor. They came to someone else's country and took over.

    Secondly you cannot compare the affairs of nations to individuals in such a simplistic way.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  3. #123
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Indeed, it a good way of looking at history. Britain was not really a shining light, we got tangled up in the affairs of many nations, rarely to their benefits and not too much more to ours in my belief. I certainly don't consider conviving to take people's land and give it to others to be a shinning light.
    Look again, more closely and without the Twenty First century prejudices that you have been taught to embrace.

    Remember that conquest was the rule of the world until very recently, and if we've moved beyond that, few if anu great power had before the Twentieth Century.

    As a whole, Britain raised the standards of living, education and justice in all the lands that they occupied.

    So strong were the institutions that they established, that people often fought to maintain them after the British had departed.

    So powerful were the ideals regarding the Rights of Man that the British propagated, that their denial could cause client colonies to rebel against the government in favor of the culture thus established, as we did in America.

    Look again at the nations that learned their lessons well from Britain, and compare them to the nations colonized by Spain, for instance.

    And look to your people a scant lifetime ago when they defied, almost alone at first, the ultimate corruption of European ideals and the utter perversion of the heritage of the White Peoples.

    No, you really do need to reassess this matter. One of my fondest hopes is the Britain one day, will remember who they are.
    Last edited by Oftencold; 01-03-09 at 08:53 PM.

  4. #124
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Look again, more closely and without the Twenty First century prejudices that you have been taught to embrace.
    Me have 21st century prejudices, you obviously don't know me well, part of me has barely reached the 13th century.

    My prejudices are 17th and 18th century and older, they are old Tory prejudices against standing armies, foreign wars and entanglements and old whig prejudices against arbitrary power.


    As a whole, Britain raised the standards of living, education and justice in all the lands that they occupied.
    They interfered arbitrarily in the affairs of other nations and cultures. You own nation was none too happy about British rule after a while.



    So powerful were the ideals regarding the Rights of Man the the British propagated, that their denial could cause client colonies to rebel against the government in favor of the culture thus established, as we did in America.
    The rights of man is Jacobin speak, I don't much care for it. British liberty was never built on such unsound foundations hence you can compare the revolution of 1688 with that of 1789 and see the great differences.


    And look to your people a scant lifetime ago when they defied almost alone at first the ultimate corruption of European ideals and the utter perversion of the heritage of the white peoples.
    That was ancient British courage and honour.

    No, you really do need to reassess this matter. One of my fondest hopes is the Britain one day, will remember who they are.
    I remember who we are. I remember Clarendon and Harley, I remember Burke's prosecution of Warren Hastings for similar abuses that you seem to hail as glorious.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-03-09 at 09:01 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  5. #125
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Firstly you are of course assuming Israel is in the right. I personally believe a two state solution needs to be found but I always consider Israel the aggressor. They came to someone else's country and took over.
    Delve a bit. Palestine was not a country, and the Jews had been busy buying up much of the land for a very long time.

    You should also study up on the quaint fact that Islam not only encourages but demands violent conquest, and how much of the Islamic world was converted by force. In other words, they are hardly ion a position to complain about the Israelis acquiring land in a similar fashion, which they have only partly done.

    Also almost every nation in the world today was founded by conquest. I seem to remember that there is a large island nation off the west coast of Europe with a history of successive waves of conquests and land-grabs in its history. Yet I do not believe that there is a serious case being made to return all of that pillaged real estate to the Celts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Secondly you cannot compare the affairs of nations to individuals in such a simplistic way.
    What do you mean I can't? I just did!

  6. #126
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Delve a bit. Palestine was not a country,
    So? Doesn't change the property relations.

    and the Jews had been busy buying up much of the land for a very long time.
    They were 8% of the population of Israel in 1918.

    You should also study up on the quaint fact that Islam not only encourages but demands violent conquest, and how much of the Islamic world was converted by force. In other words, they are hardly ion a position to complain about the Israelis acquiring land in a similar fashion, which they have only partly done.


    I'm a conservative, I have respect for the ancient culture and traditions of other nations and societies.
    Also almost every nation in the world today was founded by conquest. I seem to remember that there is a large island nation off the west coast of Europe with a history of successive waves of conquests and land-grabs in its history. Yet I do not believe that there is a serious case being made to return all of that pillaged real estate to the Celts.
    This happened within living memory, it is very different. We are not talking about ancient wrongs but something that happened 60-80 years ago. Shall we just abandon the notion of private property because the land may once been stolen? That is an argument with a gulag for a second.

    What do you mean I can't? I just did!
    And you look foolish for it.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-03-09 at 09:15 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #127
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    . . . You own nation was none too happy about British rule after a while. . .
    Actually, it began as a demand that we have "the Rights of Englishmen." The demand for revolution came after many attempts by the American Continental Congress to affect a reconciliation with the Crown and secure those rights.

    British Common Law was the foundation of our own. basically the government was sundered and the culture survived.

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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Actually, it began as a demand that we have "the Rights of Englishmen." The demand for revolution came after many attempts by the American Continental Congress to affect a reconciliation with the Crown and secure those rights.

    British Common Law was the foundation of our own. basically the government was sundered and the culture survived.
    I know this but that little to do with the "rights of men" as spouted by French revolutionaries and it was the arbitrary power and abuses you talk of which were behind a lot of our imperialism. Burke supported the rights of the colonies as surely and fastly as he attacked Warren Hastings and he was the very voice of "the rights of Englishmen".
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-03-09 at 09:14 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  9. #129
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    .
    This happened within living memory . . .
    This problem is being addressed as we speak.

  10. #130
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    Re: Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I know this but that little to do with the "rights of men" as spouted by French revolutionaries and it was the arbitrary power and abuses you talk of which were behind a lot of our imperialism. Burke supported the rights of the colonies as surely and fastly as he attacked Warren Hastings.
    Just think. If King George had been just a little less insane (or his insane physician had been run over by a wagon in the street,) the reconciliation might have gone through, and then we'd be countrymen.

    I wonder where that would have left Churchill.
    Last edited by Oftencold; 01-03-09 at 09:18 PM.

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