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Thread: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

  1. #51
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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post

    In any even, besides being Muslim, there were no other reason to raise alarm bells in this case, as being Muslim alone is not good enough of a reason. What the heck happened to common sense?
    Common Sense is what raised the alarm.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So do you also believe that judges that are christian shouldn't try the cases of rape victem's since their religion tells them that such victems should be stoned to death?
    It's not a matter of religion, it's a matter of laws and system of government being antithetical to each other.

    2 : being in direct and unequivocal opposition

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Please provide examples and proof that these are consistent with the "Christian" world.

    Also, please answer the question: what modern day Christians have you seen videos of cutting the heads off people as a political statement?
    I said none that I know of.

    And c'mon, Jallman, you know that there are some whacked out Christians out there who do bad things in the name of the Lord... do you really need me to provide some examples?

    What I'm getting at is that there are extremes in every religion.
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Besides incest, child molestation, killing of it's own, polygamy and the murder of FBI agents, I would say none that I know of.
    When looking at the particulars, anyone who'd try to equate modern Christianity to violence in the name of Allah is begging to be criticized for majoring in minutia and obfuscation.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I said none that I know of.

    And c'mon, Jallman, you know that there are some whacked out Christians out there who do bad things in the name of the Lord... do you really need me to provide some examples?

    What I'm getting at is that there are extremes in every religion.
    I agree...there are extremes in every religion. My point is that it serves no purpose to mitigate one religion's crazies by pointing to another religion's crazies.

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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Common Sense is what raised the alarm.
    I think fear.

    Tomato, tomata.
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    This family was dressed in Muslim gab and had children with them. Nothing about their body language screamed "terrorist bombers". Besides being Muslim, they did not come close to fitting the profile of hijackers. The sheer mention of the word "security" have them reported, for god's sake.

    Listen, I'm all for instinct, but from what I know of this case, it was not instinct that got this family reported. It was fear. And if anyone is going to be that terrified, then it's simple... don't fly.
    I don't know how to make it clearer. I agree with you that it is unfair that these people have been profiled. I agree that that is what occurred, that they were profiled by the passengers who reported them. I agree that it was irrational and unjust.

    What I am saying is that because we are human we will be irrational, and we will make mistakes of all sorts. I am trying to point out that being perfectly rational at deciding who is a threat and who is not may not be possible. If this is the case, and we shame people for their racism in these specific circumstances, it is likely that the result will be that we will miss catching a real terrorist at some point, and the consequences will be terrible. That is what my story shows. In my case, a wallet was made off with (there was no money in it, I had the satisfaction of knowing).

    But, if a passenger on a plane sees something they believe is suspicious and they say to themselves "Oh for crying out loud, I'm just being racist" and it turns out that there really was something to be concerned about, the consequences won't simply be a missing wallet.

    You argument rests on the notion that it is possible to be completely rational about race at all times. While I applaud your sentiment, and believe that we must always work toward that ideal, it is perhaps foolishness to believe you have accomplished it. At least in the context where so many lives can be at stake.

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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I said none that I know of.

    And c'mon, Jallman, you know that there are some whacked out Christians out there who do bad things in the name of the Lord... do you really need me to provide some examples?

    What I'm getting at is that there are extremes in every religion.
    And how does the Cristian community at large react to murder in the name of that religion? Do Christians dance in the streets when say, and abortionist is murdered, as the Islamic World celebrated the World trade Center's destruction?

    Do major Christian leaders make televised expostulations stating that they have every right promote their beliefs by force, or that the sins of the Clergy are permitted by the Prophets?

    Pretending that there is little difference or virtue between the various faiths does not make it so.

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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I agree...there are extremes in every religion. My point is that it serves no purpose to mitigate one religion's crazies by pointing to another religion's crazies.
    I agree. However, my intent was to not compare, and play the "who committed the worst offenses" game in the name of religion, but to simply put things into perspective. It's easy to condemn things we have little clue about, and I think most of us here have basic knowledge of the Koran, if any. We don't hear much about the Muslims who want nothing more than a peaceful life, but I do know a few. And some who are deeply religious.

    Bottom line, I put myself in the shoes of that family that got kicked off of the plane. Think about the injustice they feel. The embarrassment, let alone the delayed vacation that most likely will be ruined.
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I agree...there are extremes in every religion. My point is that it serves no purpose to mitigate one religion's crazies by pointing to another religion's crazies.
    Islamic violence is in perfect accord with Muhammad’s hostile directives

    "...the vicious violence intrinsic to Islamic jihad is not an aberration.

    Unlike Christ’s repudiation of faith-propagating violence - “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight” (John 18: 36),

    Muhammad urges his followers to slay the enemies of Allah - “slay the idolaters wherever you find them” (Sura 9: 5).

    While medieval so-called Christian violence [in reality Roman Catholic e.g. the Crusades] was a lapse from Christ’s methods and thus condemned by the New Testament, Islamic violence is in perfect accord with Muhammad’s hostile directives."

    Christianity, Islam and British Politics
    c. What about the violent passages in the Bible?


    First, violent Biblical passages are irrelevant to the question of whether Islam is violent.

    Second, the violent passages in the Bible certainly do no amount to a standing order to commit violence against the rest of the world.

    Unlike the Quran, the Bible is a huge collection of documents written by different people at different times in different contexts, which allows for much greater interpretative freedom.

    The Quran, on the other hand, comes exclusively from one source: Muhammad. It is through the life of Muhammad that the Quran must be understood, as the Quran itself says. His wars and killings both reflect and inform the meaning of the Quran.

    Furthermore, the strict literalism of the Quran means that there is no room for interpretation when it comes to its violent injunctions. As it is through the example of Christ, the "Prince of Peace," that Christianity interprets its scriptures, so it is through the example of the warlord and despot Muhammad that Muslims understand the Quran.

    Jihad Watch: Islam 101
    "Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law?"

    "When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15)."

    OBL 11/24/02

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