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Thread: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

  1. #211
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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Family Guy View Post
    I do and show me where any of those things violates our Constitution. Don't patronize us with your opinion rather show us one Supreme Court rulling against each one of the above that violates the Constitution.
    Family Guy, can you show where he said they DID violate the consitutiton. I think he was referring to you, rather crappily, referencing the PH quote about liberty. The reason he brought this up is...

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    1. Universal Healthcare Removes liberty
    2. Global Warming Carbon Controls (read cap and trade) Removes liberty
    3. Progessive Income Tax Removes liberty
    4. Smoking Bans in private establishments (like bars and restaurants) Removes liberty
    See, you seem to like to pick and choose about liberty. You're in favor of those things that take away peoples liberty, but you want to go throwing Patrick Henry's quote in peoples faces.

    Put a bit more simply, you're being a raging, flaming, hypocrite in this post by quoting Henry. You only care ab out Liberty when it applies to things you care about, otherwise you'll happily lose liberty or see other people lose liberty without even thinking of death. Which in and of itself isn't a BAD thing...if you didn't just throw PH in his face.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Random searches means less time spent on the most likely targets.. might "feel good" but isn't practical.
    Ah, so I'm guessing you work in law enforcement? Or near law enforcement? Or have some kind of ties to law enforcement to make this call with any kind of factual backup besides just talking out of your ass, yes?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    No, but that's because of increased security...
    Arguably because of increased security.

    Do you consider terrorist attacks only those that actually take place in the United States when you're saying this? Because if you do, we went 8 years after the 1993 World Trade Center Bombings before we had another terrorist attack within our borders. Was THAT because of increased security? Or just coincidence then, but absolute truth that it is now?

    Wait, are you going to bring up the Khobar Towers, or the U.S.S. Cole, or the Embassies? You can do that, but that opens up terrorist attacks outside the United States in which we HAVE suffered those in the past 7 years.

    So....which is it MrVicchio? Attacks within our borders, in which case the 8 years during Clinton's term must've just been "Coincidence" but during Bush's has to have been "Security"? Or is it all terrorist attacks, in which case we have had numerous attacks?

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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Because we give extra attention to the enemies most likely. It's not my fault there isn't an al Qada uniform to help us in our search but I would rather we were more liberal with our caution than less, right now.
    I agree.

    Seriously though, I do agree with you on this one. Better safe than sorry.
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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Its sterotyping and singling out a group - Lets just call it what it is but i personally wouldn't really mind if i was stopped once in a while. I'd be happy to give a few minutes [no longer than that] to ensure the security of everyone else and me. Seems a small sacrifice. It would just all depend on the attitude of those who are the ones searching you.
    That's fair. I don't think you would be detained in any way that could make you angry at the government response to a terrorist threat. You may decide to be a little pissed at the person who caused your detainment by being a little jumpy around you for looking like what she percieves as an enemy, but the government really doesn't have time to make that assessment and they have to err on the side of caution..."is it a plausible threat"? I think traditionally muslim and this woman giving a definitive report of hearing this group talking about "security" and taking an interest in the engine position, even if it was hearsay... it deserved checking out. If they missed a plane, I think the airline should have flown them for free. I think that is reasonable deterrent against making an inappropriate response. I also think that the FBI assuming responsibility of the arrangement was pretty impressive and a show of good faith from our government. But the airline deserves to take a hit for not being responsible for the bad judgment of its employees and policies toward the situation.

    It's really not that big a story. 9 people were detained for understandable reasons.

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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Family Guy View Post
    I respectfully disagree. The moral of the story is that the terrorists win every time bigotry is tolerated due to their threats. Preserving our Constitution is a lot more important to me than allowing morons on a plane to shout "FIRE" which is what they did and what the Constitution does not allow.
    Where is the right to fly in The Constitution?

    A private business reserves the right to refuse service to people.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post


    Ah, so I'm guessing you work in law enforcement? Or near law enforcement? Or have some kind of ties to law enforcement to make this call with any kind of factual backup besides just talking out of your ass, yes?

    I've done enough security work with the Military to be able to speak on the issue, as GM1 used to say "Don't waste time on the little old ladies or the hotties, look for those guys that fit the profile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Do you consider terrorist attacks only those that actually take place in the United States when you're saying this? Because if you do, we went 8 years after the 1993 World Trade Center Bombings before we had another terrorist attack within our borders. Was THAT because of increased security? Or just coincidence then, but absolute truth that it is now?

    Wait, are you going to bring up the Khobar Towers, or the U.S.S. Cole, or the Embassies? You can do that, but that opens up terrorist attacks outside the United States in which we HAVE suffered those in the past 7 years.

    So....which is it MrVicchio? Attacks within our borders, in which case the 8 years during Clinton's term must've just been "Coincidence" but during Bush's has to have been "Security"? Or is it all terrorist attacks, in which case we have had numerous attacks?
    I'm more considered with attacks on US targets and interests.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    That's fair. I don't think you would be detained in any way that could make you angry at the government response to a terrorist threat. You may decide to be a little pissed at the person who caused your detainment by being a little jumpy around you for looking like what she percieves as an enemy, but the government really doesn't have time to make that assessment and they have to err on the side of caution..."is it a plausible threat"? I think traditionally muslim and this woman giving a definitive report of hearing this group talking about "security" and taking an interest in the engine position, even if it was hearsay... it deserved checking out. If they missed a plane, I think the airline should have flown them for free. I think that is reasonable deterrent against making an inappropriate response. I also think that the FBI assuming responsibility of the arrangement was pretty impressive and a show of good faith from our government. But the airline deserves to take a hit for not being responsible for the bad judgment of its employees and policies toward the situation.

    It's really not that big a story. 9 people were detained for understandable reasons.
    I hope not anyway, thats where my problems lie. 'The enemy'
    Is someone your enemy just for believing in a certain faith?

    But lets look at it logically, those who dress up in traditional muslim garb would be less likely to be terrorists compared to those who don't.
    I can look ultra extreme one day and normal as hell the other.
    If the Government base its searches on those who dress a certain way then if i was planning to bomb something in the US. You'd be damn sure i'd be walking around in a mini skirt and heels as i'd be overlooked

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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Where is the right to fly in The Constitution?

    A private business reserves the right to refuse service to people.
    Under federal law, not on the basis of race, religion, ethnic background, sex or age.

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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    Under federal law, not on the basis of race, religion, ethnic background, sex or age.
    Bars and restaraunts have dress codes. There are also codes of conduct. You can't say "bomb" or lot's of other things on an airplane.

    I'm sorry dark skinned people who happen to be Muslim, but security is the number one priority. They were wrong, it was an inconvenience for you. But everyone travelled safely. It's not like you were imprisoned.

    May I suggest you organize marches in protest of Hamas and Hezbollah.

    The typical white person just doesn't know enough about your culture to discern past the fact that you are different. We can't tell the good from the bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I hope not anyway, thats where my problems lie. 'The enemy'
    Is someone your enemy just for believing in a certain faith?

    But lets look at it logically, those who dress up in traditional muslim garb would be less likely to be terrorists compared to those who don't.
    I can look ultra extreme one day and normal as hell the other.
    If the Government base its searches on those who dress a certain way then if i was planning to bomb something in the US. You'd be damn sure i'd be walking around in a mini skirt and heels as i'd be overlooked
    I agree with you. And that's where random searches hit. This wasn't a case of just Muslim garb, obvious or not. It wasn't for looking a certain way. It was for matching several of the obvious signs of a probable enemy. At this point in time, in terms of global conflict and the desperation of these extremists like Hamas, Hezbolla, Al Qada, and the Taliban, our response is reasonable. It's not about being of a certain faith per se, but we know that a lot of terrorists happen to be Muslims and tend to do desperate things.

    Muslims and everyone else should be glad to assist in ferreting them out just to help stop them. When someone steals your wallet, you don't just let them have your identity while he's at it. You are proactive about stopping it and you certainly wouldn't hinder a legitimate investigation into finding them.

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    Re: 9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Bars and restaraunts have dress codes. There are also codes of conduct. You can't say "bomb" or lot's of other things on an airplane.
    How does he address the fact that he proved that your notion of private business having the type of absolute authority cited is inaccurate?

    (Also, why should I get in trouble if I say, "I bombed my final exam" to my friend just because I'm in an airport? Isn't this word sensitivity going a bit overboard?)
    Nationalism in high dosages may be hazardous to your health. Please consult a psychiatrist before beginning a regular regimen, and if feelings of elitism and douchbaggery continue, discontinue immediately before you become unable to do so on your own.

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