Page 6 of 18 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 180

Thread: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

  1. #51
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Personally I think that businesses should be able to serve who they choose.
    No blacks? No Irish? No Catholics?
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  2. #52
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 04:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,468

    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    What about forcing your poison on your children at home? What about the pollution of this poison in parks where children are playing?
    That is a different matter, that is one of parenting and child absuse. The parks example would depend whose property it is but I doubt whether secondhand smoke harm, if it exists at all, would be an issue in an open space.

    Also, business ARE places of public access. In the US, the courts have LONG ruled that the government has the right to regulate these businesses, especially as it comes to substances that are potentially harmful.
    Firstly the courts have often overode liberty and constitution, that is nothing new. But businesses are still private property and this is nothing secret and involuntary, those who come onto the property know what is in store for them. To ban it is to ban private property.

    Yes, cigarette smoke IS pollution. It is poison. The government has a compelling interest. Look at the reduction of heart attacks in just three years in this one community. The health benefits alone are a compelling interest for the government to step in.
    As far as I know however it is not poison to anyone outside the limited area it is being done, if that. If you are informed then it is your choice, we should not allow the rights of property holders to be overridden.

    Personally, I think tobacco should be banned. The behavior of cigarette smokers is abmoninable.
    Right...
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  3. #53
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 04:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,468

    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    No blacks? No Irish? No Catholics?
    Are you aware of the official social teaching of the Catholic church? Or what is called Disttributism and the importance its places on private property well dispersed? Have you read the works of G.K.Chesterton or Hilaire Belloc? I suggest you check them out.

    The ChesterBelloc Mandate

    Personally I'm far closer to them than the usual libertarians who blindly claim all property is basically sovereign. But we need to preserve and protect private property still.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #54
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    That is a different matter, that is one of parenting and child absuse. The parks example would depend whose property it is but I doubt whether secondhand smoke harm, if it exists at all, would be an issue in an open space.
    Nearly all parks (at least where I live) are completely public. Sorry, but if you are sitting next to me and my children and light up, I can smell that poison. That is causing me, and more importantly, my children, harm. No one has the right to do that.

    Firstly the courts have often overode liberty and constitution, that is nothing new. But businesses are still private property and this is nothing secret and involuntary, those who come onto the property know what is in store for them. To ban it is to ban private property.
    Please tell me what part of the Constitution is being violated by LOCAL restrictions on smoking in places of public access and which courts have upheld this opinion?

    As far as I know however it is not poison to anyone outside the limited area it is being done, if that. If you are informed then it is your choice, we should not allow the rights of property holders to be overridden.
    If I can smell it, it is poisonous.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  5. #55
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,527

    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Same legal principle at work.
    Not even close. You cannot choose your race.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Nope, advocating the case for the government to tell you what you can not pollute the air people breathe with.
    It is private property if you don't like it you can leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Business owners CHOOSE to make their "private property" a place of public access which the government has a compelling interest to regulate.
    The business does make a contract to submit to a level of standards and practices as dictated by the state. But the government should only have limited rights.

    I guess personal responsibility for ones own actions is to much to ask?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Do you think you have the right to pollute the air your children breathe at home and in your car?
    In my home or car? Damn skippy.

    It again boils down to personal responsibility.

  6. #56
    Student Pinu7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    In your kitchen, drinking all your kool aid.
    Last Seen
    09-05-11 @ 01:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    196

    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Smoking is legal, so it should be allowed wherever the property owner thinks is appropriate.
    So is sex. Would that apply? Of course not because we assume that it would be offensive to the general public.

    And we assume that smoking in public is bad because Environmental Smoke from the tobacco/cannabis IS dangerous.
    Last edited by Pinu7; 01-03-09 at 12:39 AM.

  7. #57
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Are you aware of the official social teaching of the Catholic church? Or what is called Disttributism and the importance its places on private property well dispersed? Have you read the works of G.K.Chesterton or Hilaire Belloc? I suggest you check them out.

    The ChesterBelloc Mandate

    Personally I'm far closer to them than the usual libertarians who blindly claim all property is basically sovereign. But we need to preserve and protect private property still.
    You are going to use a BLOG entry as evidence to the social teachings of the Catholic Church to defend the speading of POISON?

    You want private property? Don't make it public access, and don't have children.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  8. #58
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 04:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,468

    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Nearly all parks (at least where I live) are completely public. Sorry, but if you are sitting next to me and my children and light up, I can smell that poison. That is causing me, and more importantly, my children, harm. No one has the right to do that.
    That is a different matter if it is actually owned by the public.



    Please tell me what part of the Constitution is being violated by LOCAL restrictions on smoking in places of public access and which courts have upheld this opinion?
    The right to private property.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  9. #59
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Not even close. You cannot choose your race.
    But the legal principle is the same.

    It is private property if you don't like it you can leave.
    Don't make it public access. I suppose that means the private business owner can violate public health laws as well - because the diner can simply leave.

    The business does make a contract to submit to a level of standards and practices as dictated by the state. But the government should only have limited rights.
    And keeping the workplace and place of public access free of a known toxin is NOT an example of the state overreaching its bounds.

    I guess personal responsibility for ones own actions is to much to ask?
    Sadly, many smokers wouldnt know the phrase "personal responsibility" if it smacked them flat on the forehead.

    In my home or car? Damn skippy.

    It again boils down to personal responsibility.
    Children have the right to grow up in a smoke-free environment.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  10. #60
    Student Pinu7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    In your kitchen, drinking all your kool aid.
    Last Seen
    09-05-11 @ 01:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    196

    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Any restaurant that has a children's coloring page should not have an option to smoke.

Page 6 of 18 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •