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Thread: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

  1. #41
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    That is your interpretation. Remember, this article only gave numbers and some basic conclusions. Personally, I would like to find the actual published study. I trust the doctors and scientists on this. There is SO MUCH evidence that second hand smoke is harmful that those who deny it are approaching deserving of tin hat status.
    The Bogus 'Science' of Secondhand Smoke

    Gio Batta Gori - The Bogus 'Science' of Secondhand Smoke - washingtonpost.com

    If repeated often enough, a lie will become the new truth.

    FORCES International - The Evidence - Second Hand (Passive)Smoke

    A federal court has taken a look at the Environmental Protection Agency's science on secondhand smoke and called it junk

    COURT RULES AGAINST EPA ON SECONDHAND SMOKE

    Not saying you are wrong, but it is worth looking at.

    I agree in the case of children by the way.

  2. #42
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Always nice to see people who support the right of government to tell me what I can or cannot put into my body. Heck it's not like I own myself or any such nonsense.
    My objection here isn't about what you put in your body, it is what you put in the air that others are breathing.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    If the state does not want people to smoke in public places then that is fine but that means actual public owned property not private property. The wishes of private property owners should not be overridden in this way. If you want to go to a bar which doesn't allow smoking then start one or frequent one like this.
    The next thing, will you advocate that business owners be allowed to deny service to black people again?

    The government has long regulated what can and can not be done in places of public access. Live with it. Regulating the use of a POISONOUS substance is WELL WITHIN the rights of the government.
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    My objection here isn't about what you put in your body, it is what you put in the air that others are breathing.
    If you are on private property then it is your right to do what is allowed by the owner, not the government.

  5. #45
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    It isn't polluting because as far as I know no one is suggesting that many outside the area where people are smoking is being harmed. It isn't as if the smoke from bars gathers around the city and harms those miles away. As for within private property, well that is your choice, if you don't want to breathe the air then don't go inside.
    What about forcing your poison on your children at home? What about the pollution of this poison in parks where children are playing?

    Also, business ARE places of public access. In the US, the courts have LONG ruled that the government has the right to regulate these businesses, especially as it comes to substances that are potentially harmful.

    Yes, cigarette smoke IS pollution. It is poison. The government has a compelling interest. Look at the reduction of heart attacks in just three years in this one community. The health benefits alone are a compelling interest for the government to step in.

    Personally, I think tobacco should be banned. The behavior of cigarette smokers is abmoninable.
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  6. #46
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The next thing, will you advocate that business owners be allowed to deny service to black people again?
    That is nothing but an outrageous strawman argument. Shame on you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The government has long regulated what can and can not be done in places of public access. Live with it.
    Still advocating the case for the government to tell me what to do with my body eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Regulating the use of a POISONOUS substance is WELL WITHIN the rights of the government.
    Like I said, good thing we have government to tell us what we can do with our own property.

    All hail the mighty state!

  7. #47
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The next thing, will you advocate that business owners be allowed to deny service to black people again?

    The government has long regulated what can and can not be done in places of public access. Live with it. Regulating the use of a POISONOUS substance is WELL WITHIN the rights of the government.
    Personally I think that businesses should be able to serve who they choose.

    The gov't has long encroached on liberty indeed, tha is not a good thing and this is not secret poisoning this is the open allowance of smoking. One cannot really respect private property and be for these bans, they are a complete deprivance of the rights of private property. What is basically said is that the non-owners who come onto the property freely in the knowledge of what is in store of them can override the rights of the property holder to that do allow an act which only effects those on the property, if that.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #48
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    When the property owner gave you permission.

    Private property is not sovereign but it should carry a lot of rights with it including whether you allow people to smoke on it.
    If there are children in your home, you are not sovereign. Children should have the right to grow up in a smoke free home.

    Places of public access have long been regulated by the government. Prohibiting smoking in these places is in the CLEAR PUBLIC interest. I am sorry that you think you can terrorize people with your cigarette smoke, but increasingly, people are rebelling against the tyranny of the smokers!
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  9. #49
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    If you are on private property then it is your right to do what is allowed by the owner, not the government.
    Unless it is a place of public access. Then the courts have long held that the government has a compelling interest to regulate what happens in such places.
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  10. #50
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    That is nothing but an outrageous strawman argument. Shame on you.
    Same legal principle at work.

    Still advocating the case for the government to tell me what to do with my body eh?
    Nope, advocating the case for the government to tell you what you can not pollute the air people breathe with.

    Like I said, good thing we have government to tell us what we can do with our own property.
    Business owners CHOOSE to make their "private property" a place of public access which the government has a compelling interest to regulate.

    Do you think you have the right to pollute the air your children breathe at home and in your car?
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