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Thread: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

  1. #171
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Everyone has an agenda.

    The Facts about second hand smoke - Agendas
    I'm saying they could be.

    Passive smoking is something that I've only heard about for the last five years or so, just when the anti-smoking, anti-property thugs have been campaigning and even winning(let's face it New Labour are thugs so it isn't hard.).
    With all due respect but your supporting your argument with a website that has no scientific affiliation versus a plethora of science based organizations. Not exactly a fair fight, you know?

    Second hand smoke concerns have been around far more than the last 5 years just because you haven't been aware of it doesn't mean it's a new concept.

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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
    I`ve been off the dodes for 5 years now.I think they stink like cigarettes,99.9% of the time,.1% of the time I want one.The thread was about `heart problems and second hand smoke`.So 5 years ago I had this very bad rhythem take over my heart.6 weeks into it a cardiologist told me,"quiting smokeing will do more for you than all the drugs I can give you". I quit and while it wasn`t an instant cure,when my nicotinic receptors,and GABA levels,and all the other brain chemistry leveled of I was back to semi-normal,(inthe cardio department),plus I had well over a hunert bucks left in my pocket each month.
    Good for you! Hurrah!!! Hey, I live right outside of Nashville. Small world. Two less smokers around here now.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

  3. #173
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    There is no second-hand fat, no second-hand sugar.
    Also, there are safe amounts of sugar. There is no such thing as a safe amount of nicotine and the other POISONS in tobacco smoke.
    Again though: plenty of parents have unhealthy habits and if you eat junk food and make yourself unhealthy by eating all this crap then die of a heartattack you hurt your kids simply based on your lifestyle choices and eating habits. Do you wish for the gov. to step in and tell you how to eat?

    Also do you think parents feeding their kids crappy foods is child abuse? Cause that can cause all kinds of medical problems too.

    WE need to be very careful about just how much gov. we all want inside our own personal lives beause if we get tooooo much of it? It is a step towards our very own simply daily freedoms being taken away. BE careful what ya wish for cause if you wish for more gov. up in your own personal life? You may get it and bet you will not like it if you enjoy your freedom.

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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    Will you go around the country teaching a "Smoker's Ettiquette Class"? I'll be your publicist.

    If there were more smokers like you, Kali, I would be much more accepting of smoking.
    Lets Do It! Maybe we could get rich

  5. #175
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Family Guy View Post
    With all due respect but your supporting your argument with a website that has no scientific affiliation versus a plethora of science based organizations. Not exactly a fair fight, you know?
    What argument? That almost everyone has an agenda. I frankly do not know, or care whether there is much evidence for second hand smoke. I believe in private property.

    Second hand smoke concerns have been around far more than the last 5 years just because you haven't been aware of it doesn't mean it's a new concept.
    It has only been big since the media got on the band wagon and hyped it up.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Family Guy View Post
    How do you expect me to take you seriously when you call our government Soviet like?
    I didn't. It is my gov't and EUSSR which is Soviet like, yours is a little way off.

    How can I take you seriously when you would destroy private property? I'm no diehard Lockean, I even read and debate with some libertarian socialists and communists but when you embark on an action that could be used for as a jumping off point for just about any encroachment on property without even wishing to greatly reduce centralised, state power then I can not take you position very seriously for respectfully. The rights and independence of the small property owner are doubly important in our centralised, authoritarian world.
    Second hand smoke kills and why should the rights of the people who are killing others be protected more than the rights of those who are the victims?
    Because they voluntarily go onto the property of those who allow it. It is simply the rights of property owners. Your socialism will endanger all property, if this attack is allowed what other one can really be stopped?
    Why not then allow drunken driving? Shouldn't people be allowed to do what they want and if people are stupid enough to drive knowing that a drunk driver might kill them that is their risk?
    That is different, not only is that a matter of public roads but one cannot reasonably choose whether they want to be around drunk drivers.
    There are many laws that protect the public from being harmed by other members of the public and banning smoking in public places is one of them and is one that I fully support. I also know that there's zero chance that these laws will ever be rescinded so I think it would be wise for people to put their energies somewhere more productive?
    Public places is fine, private property is not. If you support these laws on private property you do not support private property. God willing they will be removed in Britain although we are already on the decline into authoritarianism.

    I for one hope government continues to raise the cigarette taxes because it makes people stop smoking and that benefits society. Have you considered how much the cost of smoking affects all of our health care costs? It's enormous.
    I hope you see the error of your authoritarian ways. They are much worse for society.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-05-09 at 04:45 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Smoking is addictive, but I believe the main reason people start smoking is for social reasons. For one, they see everyone else doing it, and it prompts them to think it's okay, or to override the education they've received.

    I think the other reason is that it's very common to smoke just for something to do in a social setting. It has a similar function to alcohol... when you are standing around just chatting, smoking is one thing to fill the little voids in conversation.

    The number one way that smoking will be eliminated is not through higher taxation, but through social change. As it becomes less and less acceptable to smoke in public spaces, smokers will begin to disappear. If you visit South Korea, you'll see just what people think of it there. If you light up in public, it's legal, but you'll get really dirty looks from everyone around you. They hate smoking and will let it show.

    Alcohol could easily be attacked in this debate. It doesn't cause second hand toxicity, but the public resources put into dealing with drunk people every year along with their damage to property is probably enormous. Not to mention drunk driving, under age drinking, and the direct affects it has on the liver. It's another self-destructive (and addictive) substance that people tend to overlook.

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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Smoking is addictive, but I believe the main reason people start smoking is for social reasons. For one, they see everyone else doing it, and it prompts them to think it's okay, or to override the education they've received.

    I think the other reason is that it's very common to smoke just for something to do in a social setting. It has a similar function to alcohol... when you are standing around just chatting, smoking is one thing to fill the little voids in conversation.

    The number one way that smoking will be eliminated is not through higher taxation, but through social change. As it becomes less and less acceptable to smoke in public spaces, smokers will begin to disappear. If you visit South Korea, you'll see just what people think of it there. If you light up in public, it's legal, but you'll get really dirty looks from everyone around you. They hate smoking and will let it show.
    The US government has been working to eliminate smoking since way back in the 60's. It's a slow process because of the addictiveness. I think most people who smoke want to quit, but it's just so hard to do. Yeah, there are a few diehards who say they don't want to quit, but I'd say it's gone through every current smoker's minds at least once.

    Personally, and I quit 10 yrs ago, I found it to be getting too stressful to smoke. There is almost nowhere to go when you smoke. That and the cost of it. People who smoke are denying themselves other things, so they can have their fix. It's really sad. I curse the day I started. Since I quit my life is cleaner and calmer, and I have more money to spend elsewhere.

    Alcohol could easily be attacked in this debate. It doesn't cause second hand toxicity, but the public resources put into dealing with drunk people every year along with their damage to property is probably enormous. Not to mention drunk driving, under age drinking, and the direct affects it has on the liver. It's another self-destructive (and addictive) substance that people tend to overlook.
    Alcohol isn't a good substance, either, but I don't think it's quite as bad as cigs are. It's bad when it's abused, but I don't think for most people it's anywhere near as addictive as cigs are. That's another thing, since I quit smoking I don't drink. Those two substances go hand in hand. I had a drinking problem for many years, but after I quiut smoking I didn't really care for the alcohol, it wasn't important anymore. Really quite amazing.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

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    joke Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Hi Friend's
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  10. #180
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Just waiting for those who defend the forcing of poison on others to show up in this thread.
    Key word is force. But the laws have gone far beyond "force".

    A business should have the right to have a smoking environment or not. It's their business. People don't have to go to said locale. People don't have to work in said locale either.

    I also agree that a business owner funding the medical care for his emplyees has the right to drug test them and fire them if they smoke, and he instutes a no-smoking policy 24-7-365.

    I could care less if it reduced 90% of heart attacks. It's not government's job to play Mommy Dearest. If you cite a reduction in deaths due to smoking, you're opening a pretty big barrel. Where would you like the socialist to stop in their care for you?

    As for public work places... OK. But if a section of the workers want to smoke, have private offices where they wnt to smoke, then they should be able to.

    I suppose you believe in putting a limit to the speed cars can go too? So there are fewer mechanical deaths?
    Last edited by zimmer; 01-22-09 at 05:45 AM.
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