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Thread: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

  1. #141
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Private property rights are not and never have been absolute. That is even more so when you make it public access.
    Who said they were? You however are completely overriding property rights; people are able to choose whether they want to enter a bar which allows smoking. This pretext for collectivism could be used to basically allow any abuse of property by the state for spurious purposes. I mean if you think that rights can be overruled because people can't decide for themselves whether to go into a smoking bar what wouldn't you believe they could be overruled for.

    They can smoke at home if they have no children and it is not entering the living space of their neighbors. Other than that, keep your nasty habit away from the civilized people of the world who don't smoke a cancer stick.
    Keep your greedy, socialist habit from civilised property owners.

    I don't smoke btw.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-04-09 at 05:09 AM.
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  2. #142
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Family Guy View Post
    What are you talking about? There's mountains of evidence that second hand smoke is a serious killer.

    Do you smoke?
    I really don't think there is.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  3. #143
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Family Guy View Post
    Do you smoke?
    Do you own property?
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #144
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Public health care is FAR from non-existant in the United States.
    Well, comparatively non-existent. That better?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    If people want to smoke in the privacy of their own homes, so long as they aren't affecting any one elses rights (including minor children) have at it. However, the government has a legitimate interest in protecting the health and rights of those who do not in public and public access spaces.
    If cars and factories want to pollute the same air I beathe with cancer causing agents and particles that affect my breathing, then they can shut down or move their operations to a planet that I'm not inhabiting. Oh, wait...

    Most times if you politely ask a smoker to step outside, they'll listen to you. That is the definition of civility right there. You won't get catered to if you go to a bar or pub, where smoking is usually part of its recreation. Civility is not denying other people the ability to do what they want, as you propose.

  5. #145
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Who said they were? You however are completely overriding property rights; people are able to choose whether they want to enter a bar which allows smoking. This pretext for collectivism could be used to basically allow any abuse of property by the state for spurious purposes. I mean if you think that rights can be overruled because people can't decide for themselves whether to go into a smoking bar what wouldn't you believe they could be overruled for.
    Forbidding smoking in public access spaces is not collectivism. The government pays the bills for many people who come down with tobacco related illnesses (either first or second hand). The government has a legitimate interest in the regulation of poison.

    Keep your greedy, socialist habit from civilised property owners.

    I don't smoke btw.
    I have been called a hippie and a socialist on the first four days of the year. Incredible.
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  6. #146
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I really don't think there is.
    The medical community disagrees with you.
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  7. #147
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Well, comparatively non-existent. That better?
    I think people simply don't realize how much governments in the US spend on health care. It is far more than many people think.

    If cars and factories want to pollute the same air I beathe with cancer causing agents and particles that affect my breathing, then they can shut down or move their operations to a planet that I'm not inhabiting. Oh, wait...
    1. Governments DO regulate the emissions of industry, though in my opinion, not as strictly as they should.
    2. Industry is FAR more productive to the economy than tobacco is.

    Most times if you politely ask a smoker to step outside, they'll listen to you. That is the definition of civility right there. You won't get catered to if you go to a bar or pub, where smoking is usually part of its recreation. Civility is not denying other people the ability to do what they want, as you propose.
    I disagree. Incivility is the intentional spewing of poison into the air that you share with other people. I note the point on auto emissions, but I support stricter emissions controls on automobiles. As I have noted earlier, I am a cycle-commuter and rarely use a car.
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  8. #148
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Forbidding smoking in public access spaces is not collectivism. The government pays the bills for many people who come down with tobacco related illnesses (either first or second hand). The government has a legitimate interest in the regulation of poison.
    You contradict yourself here, you claim you aren't espousing collectivism when the second sentence is collectivism.

    Public access is bull**** word used as excuse for depriving people of property rights. The fact that the public can come into a bar does not make it not private property any more or mean that these people can't decide for themselves whether to go into that property.

    People are capable of deciding these things for themselves, they don't need tthe state to deprive the rights of property owners.

    I have been called a hippie and a socialist on the first four days of the year. Incredible.
    Well it was tongue in cheek as it was obviously a praphrase of your own comments but you are attacking private property and if the shoe fits...
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  9. #149
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The medical community disagrees with you.
    I doubt most know the first thing about it other than the propaganda spewed out at them.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  10. #150
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    Re: Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Shewter View Post
    I've yet to see a case of someone being harmed by second hand smoke.
    So? Is that supposed to mean that second-hand smoke doesn't cause others harm? Okay.

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