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Thread: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

  1. #61
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    LOL, again you make a huge chronological mistake. The definition I cited for establishment predates the term "established Church" by over a century.
    No the word does, according to the online dictionary you cited. It does not list the beginnings of each usage.

    The term gay used to mean happy and a prostitute. It's modern meaning is 20th century and yet it is listed by your online dictionary as 14th century.

    gay - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    Main Entry:
    1gay Listen to the pronunciation of 1gay
    Pronunciation:
    \ˈgā\
    Function:
    adjective
    Etymology:
    Middle English, from Anglo-French gai, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German gāhi quick, sudden
    Date:
    14th century

    1 a: happily excited : merry <in a gay mood> b: keenly alive and exuberant : having or inducing high spirits <a bird's gay spring song>2 a: bright , lively <gay sunny meadows> b: brilliant in color3: given to social pleasures ; also : licentious4 a: homosexual <gay men> b: of, relating to, or used by homosexuals <the gay rights movement> <a gay bar>

    Not to mention that the TERM "established church" was not ever used in the 1st amendment.
    Except of course that according to your very definition it means that in a religious context.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-02-09 at 01:38 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    No the word does, according to the online dictionary you cited. It does not list the beginnings of each usage.
    What do you think the word "Date" means in a definition?

    EDIT:
    Except of course that according to your very definition it means that in a religious context.
    No, in my very definition it cites "established church" as an example of an establishment.

    what do you think it means when following a definition, several things are listed for example for vehicle if it said "a. Chevy Camero"?
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 01-02-09 at 01:44 AM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  3. #63
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    What do you think the word "Date" means in a definition?
    It means it first appeared in the English language at the time. As I quoted above the term gay appeared in the English language in the 14th century but it wasn't used to mean homosexual until the 20th century.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-02-09 at 01:41 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    It means it first appeared in the English language at the time. As I quoted above the term gay appeared in the English language in the 14th century but it wasn't used to mean homosexual until the 20th century.
    what do you think it means when a definition is the LAST ONE in the list? For example "1. merry" and ... "4. homosexual" ?

    You had me interested for a little bit, but I'm getting bored again. At least you ceased w/ the insults, it makes you look far more competent at debating.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  5. #65
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    No, in my very definition it cites "established church" as an example of an establishment.
    No it doesn't. It cites it as a definition of establishment. It lists the religious definition of establishment as an established church.

    Anyway this destroys the point you are trying to make ie the establishment doesn't mean established church, even if your twisted was correct it certainly could.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  6. #66
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    what do you think it means when a definition is the LAST ONE in the list? For example "1. merry" and ... "4. homosexual" ?
    What? (too short.)
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    No it doesn't. It cites it as a definition of establishment. It lists the religious definition of establishment as an established church.

    Anyway this destroys the point you are trying to make ie the establishment doesn't mean established church, even if your twisted was correct it certainly could.
    No, you're the one twisting words since you're claiming that all establishments of religion are established churches, simply because of a dated TERM.

    My apartment building is by definition an establishment, and it is NOT an established church.

    Establishment /= Established Church, established churches are simply a kind of establishment. THERE ARE OTHERS, and nothing you have said "destroys this."

    Is a private institution with no religious affiliations an establishment or not? Yes or no?

    EDIT:
    By the way, my definition listed "established church" under examples of "something established."

    A list of examples is NO definition.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 01-02-09 at 01:51 AM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  8. #68
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    What? (too short.)
    That was my way of saying that the date pertains to the first definition, and that if you wanted to know the dates of other uses of a term consult an english major.

    Anywho, I've got work tomorrow, if your reply is as insult free as the last few, expect a response.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 01-02-09 at 01:50 AM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  9. #69
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    No, you're the one twisting words since you're claiming that all establishments of religion are established churches, simply because of a dated TERM.
    We are talking about an 18th century document. You seem to be admitting my point.

    In formal English that is what a religious establishment meant, particularly in the 18th century and the FF's knew this. They could have easily used a different term but they didn't because they knew its usage.

    Calling any religious organisation an establishment is lax use of English, even today.
    My apartment building is by definition an establishment, and it is NOT an established church.

    Establishment /= Established Church, established churches are simply a kind of establishment. THERE ARE OTHERS, and nothing you have said destroys this.

    Is a private institution with no religious affiliations an establishment or not? Yes or no?
    In formal English a religious establishment is an established church. That is why they are listed seperately, partiuclarly before quite recently. You are being lax with the English language.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-02-09 at 01:53 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    That was my way of saying that the date pertains to the first definition, and that if you wanted to know the dates of other uses of a term consult an english major.
    It was you who was trying to make an argument out of it. I showed you were wrong or that your evidence only showed when the word was first used.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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